Hard Light Productions Forums
FreeSpace Releases => Mission & Campaign Releases => Topic started by: Freespace Freak on September 16, 2006, 11:00:00 am
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Hey, guys! If you remember from this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,41793.0.html) thread that I'd said I'd do a mod. Well, I'm ready to release the beta version. I haven't finished the Silent Threat campaign portion of the mod, so if you want to play Silent Threat, I suggest you remove the mod files before doing so.
If you remember, I wanted some continuity between the FS1 and FS2 tech, so now all the Shivan capital ships have beam weapons. You can read more about it in the readme. After I finish Silent Threat (which might be awhile seeing as I'm swamped with school, my job, and other responsibilities at the moment), Snail are working on a campaign together which will smooth over even more tech continuity, among other things.
So, without further ado, here's the download link (http://rapidshare.de/files/33332821/FS1_Overhaul.rar.html). Please let me know what problems and all that you may encounter. I hope you enjoy! :)
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Oooh, first release. :D
Wonder how it is...
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Three missions have been finished on the new campaign, just so that you know. :)
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Three missions have been finished on the new campaign, just so that you know. :)
Cool! Mind if I see them?
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You have one of them, the other is finished, but one is as buggy as hell. I'll send the other one over when I get back to my compy.
Oh, and the Orion defense mission died a few weeks ago, so the mission's completely different.
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Hmm... I'm not getting as good of a reception as I had thought from the post where I originally spoke about the concept. Perhaps I should have announced this in another forum?
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What exactly did you do? Put beam cannons in FS1? To me that sounds like replacing Shermans with Abrams... Sorry not my cup of tea. I hate tea.
:v: did well. Not even the port team can make FS1 better. But that's just me talking. :)
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Couldn't agree more. There's just something a bit 'off' about making drastic changes to FS1. All well and good for an experiment, but hardly what i'd call an 'overhaul'.
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********Caution: Long-Winded Explanation**********************
It's more than just that, it's actually the first part in a project designed to create technological continuity between FS1 and FS2. Perhaps I shouldn't have released it until the entire project is finished. Anyway, we all know that :v: has technological inonsistancies between FS1 and FS2. First of all, they claim that the GTVA got beam cannons from the Shivans, but there were no beam cannons in the Great War, only the "Flux Cannon" of the Lucifer. If we streach our imagination a bit, and perhaps we can say that the flux cannon was a beam weapon, not just a silly flux cannon, and that is what the GTVA got their idea for the beam cannons from. Okay, sounds plausible, right?
No. The Shivans only had this "beam cannon" on the Lucifer, not on any of their other ships. Additionally, where did the GTVA get the idea for anti-fighter beams from? And what about flak guns? These ideas couldn't have come from the Shivans, but in FS2 it clearly stated that it did, at least for the beam weapons.
Okay, so what if the GTVA got beam weapons from Shivans, and invented anti-fighter beams and flak turrets out of their own volition (no pun intended). That sounds good, but why did the Shivans appear in Gamma Draconis with the exact same technology. If the Shivans knew that the GTVA was equipping their ships with these weapons, then its possible that they would do the same. So when the Shivans showed up in Gamma Draconis, they had already equipped their sub-Lucifer sized ships with beam weapons and anti-fighter beams and flak guns. The problem with this is, the Shivans and the GTVA were out of contact (officially) since the Great War, so there's no way the Shivans could have known how the GTVA had equipped their ships, and equipped theirs likewise.
Of course we all know the reason both the GTVA and the Shivans had similarly equipped ships. Graphics processing technology had improved during the creation of FS2 and :v: felt it would be cool if all the vessels just had them. No explanation was given as to why everybody all of a sudden has this new technology, it's just that it "looks cool."
So, this mod is step one in a three-step mod to correct the historical tech discrepency between FS1 and FS2. Step two will be Silent Threat, and step 3 will be a new campaign whereby the explanation on how the flak gun (invented in a joing Terran-Vasudan project) interested the Shivans immensely (Shivans were not known heretofore to "adapt" non-Shivan technology) and resulted in Shivan acquisition of the weapon before the "end" of the Great War.
This mod is unique in that everyone knows that there's a tech discrepency between FS1 and FS2, but the modding community for the most part ignores it. As for me, I'm a bit of a perfectionist ans when I see a discrepency I want it correct it. That's just me. *shrugs*
So, perhaps I released this too early. I think I should have released it only after the entire thing is completed. :\
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The tech discrepency is hardly the biggest logical error in FS, and it can be quickly and with only a small leap of faith be explained away. Honestly, I don't see the point. Sorry :blah:
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Not really an overhaul, yeah. But something that is fun. I mean, having beam cannons on Shivan ships while the Terran and Vasudan ships didn't would be pretty cool, no? It really gives you that "OMG WE'RE SCREWED!!" feeling, doesn't it?
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Well, maybe I should call it "FS1 Retro Mod"
So, Mars, in your opinion, what is the biggest logical error and FS. And explain away to me the "small" leap of faith that would be needed to explain away the tech discrepency.
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FSFreak, did you get my mission I sent you?
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Checking...Ok, got it.
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So, Mars, in your opinion, what is the biggest logical error and FS. And explain away to me the "small" leap of faith that would be needed to explain away the tech discrepency.
The physics, by far, is the biggest problem with the FS universe, followed by jump node inconsistancies
The small leap of faith? We can assume there's a good tactical reason why beam cannons aren't in most Shivan ships in FS1. What that reason is could be several things: maybe it inhibits their mobility (time between jumps?) and the Lucifer fleet is an advance fleet, maybe it takes away their ability to use unstable node, it can be explained by many different things
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doesn't this horribly unbalance FS1 ?
Anyway i'm going to try it out. I surely appreciate your hard work and efforts to give us the option to play this way Freespace Freak... but i think that considering all the purists (of which I am not one) you shouldn't have called this mod "FS1 Overhaul" but something like "Alternate FS1" or "Beam Continuity mod for FS1".
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He editted some of the missions so that it was more balanced.
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you shouldn't have called this mod "FS1 Overhaul" but something like "Alternate FS1" or "Beam Continuity mod for FS1".
This I will do, and no it doesn't horribly unbalance FS1. It makes some of the missions harder, yes, but not unbalance. You gotta be more careful, prioritize beam turrets, either beam cannons if an important allied ship is in danger, or anti-fighter beams if it's you that's in danger.
Actually, there wasn't a whole lot of balancing that needed to be done. When I first tried to "balance" the ships one-to-one, it made them more difficult for fighter assaults, so I "unbalanced them." In missions, if you simply take out the beam turrets of any enemy, then you don't have to worry about a thing. The Lucy won't have anti-fighter beams, by the way, simply because I felt a ship that is supposed to be impervious to "normal" weapons doesn't need a defense from small fry. I figured all of its weapons should be made for capital ship assault.
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So, Mars, in your opinion, what is the biggest logical error and FS. And explain away to me the "small" leap of faith that would be needed to explain away the tech discrepency.
The physics, by far, is the biggest problem with the FS universe, followed by jump node inconsistancies
The small leap of faith? We can assume there's a good tactical reason why beam cannons aren't in most Shivan ships in FS1. What that reason is could be several things: maybe it inhibits their mobility (time between jumps?) and the Lucifer fleet is an advance fleet, maybe it takes away their ability to use unstable node, it can be explained by many different things
I understand your physics argument, but FS is not at all unlike many other space shooters, so in that regards I don't consider it a big problem. I think FS would have been better if ship and weapons base velocities would have been a whole lot higher though, but I'm not that upset by the lack of Newtonian physics. The jump node inconsistancies bother the hell out of me though, especially for campaign writing.
However, I don't agree with you small leap of faith. There's no evidence that says that the Shivans in FS2 couldn't have used unstable nodes. In fact, they probably did. It is widely accepted, and is near canon, that what we saw at the end of FS2 was that when the Sathani made Capella go nova, it created a "supernode" that allowed them to travel to great distances, possibly to another galaxy, universe, or even another dimension. This "supernode jumping" technology is probably very similar unstable node jumping, and the same technology is probably what allowed Lucifer fleet to get to T-V space in the first place. Also, if having beam weapons hinders their ability to use unstable jump-nodes, why did the Lucifer have beam weapons? The Lucifer used such unstable jump nodes, did it not? So that theory is shot before it could even begin.
But that's only talking about the beam weapons. The inconsistancy problem is thus: In FS2, all Shivan and GTVA ships had three seperate weapons systems: beam cannons, anti-fighter beams, and flak guns. In FS1, no ships had them except the Lucifer, and it only had what we might imiginatively call beam weapons. So the problem is, how did ALL of them have essentially the same exact technology when they re-encountered eachother.
I'll give you some explanations and show you how they're illogical. The first one I just talked about, the node thing. Second one, the Shivans want to be "good sports" and not have technology that would be "unfair" so battles are more "balanced." Not logical, because, what's the deal with the umpteen million Sathani? Obviously that's overkill compared to the GTVA's one Collossus. And if the Shivans wanted to be good sports, what's the deal with the Lucifer itself? If they really wanted to be good sports, the Lucy wouldn't have shields or flux cannons in the first place, nor would they be so upset about the GTA learning how to track ships through subspace, so we can kill it. So, I see no evidence that the Shivans were trying to be "good sports."
Thirdly, what if the GTVA simply developed these weapons out of their own volition, and decided to equip them on all their ships. The Shivans, who have all kinds of weapons laying around, since by now they should have invented just about anything, decided to equip themselves with the same weapons. This is similar to the "Shivans were being good sports" theory. Firstly, this is bogus, because in reality, technology that is not used is forgotten.
Example: Did you know that humans invented the steam engine before the birth of Christ? It was invented in Alexandria, Egypt by some famous philosopher or another. Anyway, it wasn't used because it was thought to be unnecessary because of all the cheap slave labor that existed at the time. It took almost 2000 years when slavery was being abolished, for the steam engine to be reinvented again. So, if the humans did invent these weapons on their own, the Shivans are unlikely to have them lying around themselves. Also, if this theory is true, then the Shivans should have countless other weapons lying around that we haven't even thought of. How did the Shivans guess to use anti-fighter beams and flak guns specifically, to match the GTVA, when they could have used anything else? Remember, the Shivans and the GTVA are supposed to be completely isolated from eachother during the interim.
So, no small leap of faith that I have yet seen can be used to explain away the tech discrepency. So, some other method should be used. However, you do have a point, Mars, and that is changing FS1 may be a bit too drasctic of a fanfic method to try to explain the tech discepency. So, I'm afraid I'm going to have to scrap this mod.
Sad, my first mod was a complete failure. :blah: :sigh: However I do want to resolve this tech discrepency, and I think I have an idea of how to do it by, instead of changing FS1, simply creating an add-on campaign that takes place during the Great War, but after the events of FS1 and Silent Threat. I'll post my idea later, so I can give you guys a chance to digest what I just said, but I'd like you to chime in on my idea to create a campaign as a fanfic way to explain away the tech discrepency. :)
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I'm actually quite intrigued to try this one out, I'm highly in support of it, and I'm a big fan of the idea. I'll be downloading it in the next few days and giving it a shot as I have time (what little of it I have)
Keep up the good work!
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It has been a long while since I've played fs1, But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?
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It has been a long while since I've played fs1, But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?
That sounds like fanfic, dreadingly called "fanon". Currently, there no real canon explanation regarding the problems I mentioned above, only that the GTVA acquired beam technology from the Shivans. There is no mention about how both sides developed anti-fighter beams or flak guns completely independant from eachother, apparantly. Besides, if the ancients actually did invent beam weapons, then there would be no need to track the Lucifer through subspace, since beams completely ignore shields, including (presumably) the Lucifer's, which is probably why both sides felt it a waste to shield either of their large capital ships. What the Ancients discovered was a way to track ships through subspace, and that's all. In subspace, the Lucy can be destroyed using "normal" (non-beam) weapons.
Granted, what I'm doing is what might be called "fanfic," but hopefully it might be considered plausible fanfic. I'm not attempting to create a sort of "fanon" explanation, just an idea that people might have in their minds as a sort of plausibility, so they don't have to stress about the lack of continuity. I welcome other explanations, as long as they're sound, plausible, and not logically contradictory.
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don't feel bad freespace freak ! I think it's a great idea and i've added your stuff to my freespace collection so i have the option of playing beam enabled FS1. But hell, if you're going to make an add on campaign, that's also very welcome ! :D
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Someone has proposed an FS1 campaign with beams(only Shivans) time ago...
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But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?
Nowhere in FS does it say the Ancients ever discovered beam technology.
I agree, don't give up this mod, FS_Freak. I find this... let's call it an "adjustment"... far more plausible than "the Shivans weren't using beams at all in FS1". Yes, I know they don't have them in the game, but that was only because comps didn't have graphics support for beams (though I do wonder why they didn't put some version of the superlaser on smaller Shivan ships, probably just to make the Lucifer even more unique...)
Bottom Line: Some people don't agree with you, but they are the vocal minority. That happens in whatever big project is released. Someone somewhere will find something wrong with it. Keep up the good work, because this is a great idea and I'd hate to see it go to waste because of some minor disagreements.
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The Lucy won't have anti-fighter beams, by the way, simply because I felt a ship that is supposed to be impervious to "normal" weapons doesn't need a defense from small fry. I figured all of its weapons should be made for capital ship assault.
The approach will not be easy. You're required to maneuver straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy the station. Only a precise hit will set off a chain reaction.
:lol:
Just popped in my mind... :rolleyes:
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But I thought they got beam technology from the ancients? The ancients managed to make beams and tracking shivans in subspace. Things that could have had them win against the shivans but they found them too late right?
Nowhere in FS does it say the Ancients ever discovered beam technology.
Ah, my bad then, Like I said it has been awhile since I played fs1......
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and too freespace freak.
To hell with what the haters are saying. I say go for it and keep making the mod.
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If there's two things I've always thought is vital on the FS Modding board is the ability to say 'I don't like it.', and the ability for the modder to choose whether to take it as something they agree with or not.
If you're happy with your Mod then keep it exactly the way it is Freespace Freak, however, people will be honest with their opinion about Mods and Campaigns if you ask for comments, and I promise you, you'll never please everyone, certainly not with something that involves Canon-based events like this ;)
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In my experience, working with canonical info is almost harder to make people accept.
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In my experience, working with canonical info is almost harder to make people accept.
it's certainly harder to make.
I must have spent over 100 hours replaying the games and reading the wiki just to make sure I didn't screw up my references.
And my mod barely involves the main campains at all...
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I've always felt it was more about atmosphere, if a story is engaging and entertaining and it draws the player in, they will be prepared to accept almost any explanation in order to keep the story going, as long as it is plausable. The only problem with campaigns set between the two wars is that you have reduced flexibility in weapon and ship mods, but if you are simply doing a standard FS2 campaign, that really isn't a problem :)
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Hmm. Trying for more continuity I see? Very interesting. I have had issues about ship weapons in both games being to similar. Terrans and Vasudans having the same weapons, Shivans using TV bombs, everyone getting beams and flak. The tweak, as I'll call it, is a very nice idea and I'm in full support of it. But why stop with FS1? :)
I was thinking about it today. If the GTVA indeed got their beam tech from the Shivans, well, the Luci was the only ship that had it and it blew up on the Sol side of the node. The GTVA would have had to done a lot of experimenting, and with the recontruction period and the contruction of the Collossus, part of me wonders if they really could have had the time to perfect beam technology as much as they did even in those 20 years.
It might be more reasonable to think that the GTVA in the time of FS2 wouldn't have as much beam tech. Maybe just the anti-cap ship beam cannons on the corvettes and destroyers, and no anti-fighter beams. Then the flak guns would be more for taking down fighters and bombers.
And speaking of flak guns. What are Shivans doing with them? They seem like a more crude weapon than the precise beams that they adore so much. Why would a race that uses lasers and beams more than missles and stuff go for a ballistic weapon like flak cannons? IIRC, Shivan fighters don't carry that many warheads, aside from the bombers at least. So seeing flak cannons on Shivan ships just seems kinda odd. Also, seeing a superiority of beam tech on Shivan ships gives a better "holy crap!" feel to their armada I'd think.
Basically the idea is this. Give the Shivans more beams, take away the flak. Give the GTVA more flak and less beams. Or better yet, do that for just Terrans and think up something different for the Vasudans.
I know I'm just prattling on, but these are ideas that popped into my head while thinking about this topic today. Freak, you can take this idea or leave it. I just wanted to throw it out there. :)
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Whoa, my topic got moved and all of a sudden I have a flurry of responses! Thanks Goober! And thanks everybody else for the support! :)
Anyway, you have an interesting idea Culando, but I don't want to change FS2 any, though, just the interim between FS1 and FS2, which brings me to my next idea that I would like to discuss.
First things first, please post any glitches or PM me if you have any problems. The only mission that I rescripted was Clash of the Titans, and that was only because the Tantalus was too far away and wasn't oriented to where its beams would pose a threat to the Bastion, and I scripted the launch of the first bomber wing to 30 seconds after the player destroys one of its beams to give the player time to do what needs to be done. Other than that, the game's the same except the Shivans have beams and aren't afraid to use them. You might also notice that standard lasers are a bit faster, but their fire and damage rate is the same.
Okay, I'm sort of mulling over what direction to take next. As this mod sort of met with mixed acceptance, I'm going over possibilities in my mind. I could conitinue with this, rescript Silent Threat, and then continue on to the campaign where flak guns and how they are acquired by the Shivans is brought about. Or, I could scrap this mod in its current iteration, to allow for greater community acceptance.
This was my thought, instead of changing FS1, leave FS1 alone, in its retail version, and instead add to the events shortly following Silent Threat to create continuity. This is how I was thinking about going about it:
Some months after the events of Silent Threat, a Terran and Vasudan project creates beam technology using captured GTI engineering documents and equipment. They also recreate the GTI's efforts at ship-shielding and manage to shield an Orion destroyer and arm it with the new beam weapons. It turns out that the beams from the Lucifer and the Hades used a rare focusing crystal, the size of a small asteroid. Neither the Terrans or Vasudans could find equivalent crystal and intead used replacement ones that, although work similarly, are not as effective, so these new beams are not as powerful as the Lucy's or the Hades', and they glow green instead of red or orange-red because of it. This destroyer would house no fighters since the generator powering the shield system was designed to fit into the hangar bay. You are assigned to another destroyer that is part of this experimental destroyer's task force.
Command has decided to deploy this new shielded beam-equipped Destroyer against the remnant Shivan forces. Preliminary tests go off without a hitch. The Orion is impervious to enemy fire and all, and its beam weapons allow for quick kills. Meanwhile, intelligence spots a Shivan repair depot in some system or another. Multiple Shivan vessals are spotted in the vicinity, including a Demon. This destroyer is dispatched to destroy the depot along with all enemy capital ships and your wing is deployed to assist. At the start of the mission, things immediately take a strange turn. All the Shivan warships flee from this destroyer except the Demon, which turns to intercept. This is odd because ever since this Orion was first deployed, Shivans have been avoiding it like the plague. Suddenly, the reason for the Demon's audacity reveals itself, as it opens fire with its own beam cannons.
Mass chaos ensues as it quickly becomes apparant that the destroyer's shielding system, which was thought to be impervious to all known weapons, is completely being bypassed by the Demon's beams. The Demon's beams cause a reactor overload on the Orion, and it becomes unable to return fire in kind, and it becomes up to the player to save the day. Your wing is ordered to take out the Demon's beams, but you run into trouble as the Shivans demonstrate their new weapon, the anti-fighter beam. Because of it, many of your wing refuse orders to attack the Demon, fearing this new weapon.
After the mission, the TV forces work on building their own anti-fighter beams, while simultaneously deploying thier new weapon, the flak gun, created by Vasudan engineers who acquired a taste for "ancient" human history. (They got the idea for the flak gun by watching old WWII archival footage.) The TV forces abandon future plans to shield capital ships, since shields are useless against beams, and instead focus on creating better weaponry. There are many other aspects to this campaign, but it ends with the final defeat of the Shivans, and the dissolution of the GTA that transitions into the Reconstruction period.
Tell me what you guys think of this idea as an "alternative" to my current mod. The pros is that because it doesn't change retail FS1, it might have more community support. The cons is that it supports the "Shivans didn't use beam tech in FS1 because they didn't need it/were being good sports" theory that I'm not a big fan of.
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Sounds pretty cool. :yes:
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Surprised Goober didn't say this but I'd advise not touching Silent Threat until he releases ST:R.
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Hm. Probably a good point. GTI Rebellion is doing their own thing too though.
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This is one of the reasons why I didn't want to do ST, the other reason is that adding beams to the ST missions would be a nightmare to balance.
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Sounds pretty cool. :yes:
Thanks. The problem with it is that it would probably run a little counter to the ST:R campaign you're working on. Not that two non-canon campaigns can't exist simultaneously or anything. The biggest problem is that if I have the campaign I mentioned above to take place shortly after the events of Silent Threat, then it would counter ST:R in that the Shivan defeat and the GTA break up take place after the Events of Silent Threat, not at the end of it as I believe will happen during ST:R. (I hope I'm not giving away too much info, delete what is necessary if I am.)
I might be able to come up with a good story where it all takes place during ST, but I'd come across the problem of how the GTA got beam and cap-ship shielding technology, if they weren't using tech acquired from captured GTI experiments, etc. The details of the story-line can change any moment, though, as I'm still trying to figure out a finalized story. For right now, I can really only concieve of this stuff happening after the events of ST, starting maybe two months after the destruction of the Hades, and ending maybe four to six months after that. Which would place the final defeat of the Shivans and subsequent dissolution of the GTA at about one year or so past the destruction of the Lucifer. All and all that sounds pretty tight and concise, I think.
I realize I'm giving away alot of the hypothetical storyline, something that modders hardly ever do, but I want to get a feel for the potential community reaction to whatever I may end up releasing.
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This is one of the reasons why I didn't want to do ST, the other reason is that adding beams to the ST missions would be a nightmare to balance.
That'd be a wait and see sort of thing. We may end up scrapping the effort to redo FS1 and ST, and instead just focus and doing a campaign only. At least then, we don't have to worry about balancing pre-existing missions. But, on the other hand, as I found out by redoing FS1, balancing really wasn't an issue. The biggest problem was merely rescripting the missions so that the beams from the Shivans were actually threatening, not toning them down so that they're less threatening.
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I'm rather more eager on the campaign, actually. :P
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I'm rather more eager on the campaign, actually. :P
I know, the problem is we're still in the writing stage. Although, the missions you've done so far a good for at least a template. I should mention to you though, that in the last mission you sent to me, the Levy collided into the Orion, and I think there's a too many good guys, and not enough bad guys type of thing going on, but that's why it's called editing. :)
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None of the missions I sent you were beta tested. Simply add a few more bad guys and up the Leviathan's distance. Many of them are 'completed', not polished or tested.
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Thanks. The problem with it is that it would probably run a little counter to the ST:R campaign you're working on. Not that two non-canon campaigns can't exist simultaneously or anything. The biggest problem is that if I have the campaign I mentioned above to take place shortly after the events of Silent Threat, then it would counter ST:R in that the Shivan defeat and the GTA break up take place after the Events of Silent Threat, not at the end of it as I believe will happen during ST:R. (I hope I'm not giving away too much info, delete what is necessary if I am.)
I don't think that counts as a spoiler. We're trying to make a good campaign with a recognizable plot that has a beginning, middle, and end. :v:'s Silent Threat didn't really have a plot -- it had a good beginning, and a mediocre middle, but it didn't end, it just "stopped". ST:R will fix that. :)
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What?! You're not using my idea?! You jerk! :mad:
J/K. ;) I'll just have to do the idea myself.
This new camp idea is nice and sounds fun. I'd still like to see FS1 with Shivan beams though.
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There are probably going to be several variations of the future of the FS2 universe as well once a few more campaigns are finished. TI, for example, doesn't fit in with Inferno, the two collide quite spectacuarly in places. That doesn't mean that we think Inferno is 'Wrong' and more than we assume TI will be 'Right' it's just a fun excuse to make a space shooty campaign ;)
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I'd still like to see FS1 with Shivan beams though.
That, at least, is done, just go to the original post. It's only for FS1, though, not Silent Threat.
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I played a couples missions with beams in FS1 and i thought it was enjoyable.
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Guys, remember that the GTD Hades had beam cannons also. Maybe the GTA investigated the debris and sensor logs after the battle (they had like a whole half hour to scan the thing during the battle and see how it was built), and was able to use this to design their own Hades-like beam cannons.
If you don't believe me, go into FRED and check out the "Shivan Super Laser" turret on the Hades.
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Yes, very true. My next plan is to do to ST what I did to the main campaign. Once I have some free time, I'll start Fredding them. I'll actually remake the last mission to where the player has a directive to destroy the Hades' beam turrets, then capital ships jump in and help you finish it off. It should make the mission less tedious so you don't have to sit there and reload every five seconds 100 time before you kill it, not to mention make the mission seem more realistic.
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Yeah, that last ST mission had to be the most shining example of bad mission design in the whole expansion pack.
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BTW, FSFreak, I sent you the message a while ago about that campaign I was working on that was supposed to be compatible with FS1 Overhaul(?). It also will have some INFA stuff in it, as well as anything else that is FS1 that I can find.
Should I create another thread for that or should I splurge it all out here?