[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I like the idea, like it a lot. The community needs an ambitious project like this to unify it, a campaign that will appeal to everyone, not just Babylon 5 fans or Star Wars fans. The most important question here, though, is do you have the time and the motivation? For time, I would guess at the very least an hour every day would be necessary, probably 2. Coordinating a project of the size you're talking about will require that kind of time.

Motivation is another important aspect. You must be willing to work on the campaign even if there seems to be no progress for months on end. You can't go around, gathering support and then one month later end up terminating the campaign because you lost interest.

Building a campaign takes MONTHS, even YEARS. WMCoolmon is NOT lying when he says it's a substantial time commitment. My own campaign isn't slated to be ready until Fall 2004. That's how much of a commitment you need to have, Hotsnoj. If you can't be sure that you won't see it through to the end, don't bother making this campaign.

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
There's no way for anyone to make a Freespace 3 that will satisfy everyone, least of all Volition. Everyone has their own expectations after years of waiting. Many people are more interested in finishing their own campaigns, which they've worked on for a year or years before throwing in with a campaign idea that's as risky as this one.

Listen to him, Snoj. He knows what he's talking about. Many campaigns have come and gone with barely a whisper. Without the proper preaparation and commitment, yours will disappear as well.

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
If you really want to try and make a Freespace 3 campaign, go ahead. It might be better to call it Freespace 2: Answers to avoid the knee-jerk reaction that people have to Freespace 3, but if you truly want to name it Freespace 3, name it Freespace 3.

If you truly want to offend and alienate the entire FS Community from your campaign, call it FS3. Nothing will break out the flamethowers than for you to be so pretentious and arrogant as to claim your campaign is the official successor to FS2.

HELLO??? HELLO??? NO ONE WANTS TO SEE A USER-MADE CAMPAIGN INAUTHENTICALLY MASQUERADE AS FS3! SO DON'T EVEN TRY!

Snoj, go play the original FS2 campaign. Become familiar with its story. THEN draft your own story. You'll HAVE TO draft your story before you do ANYTHING else to create your campaign. Otherwise, you'll have nothing but a bunch of disjointed and haphazardly connected missions that don't blend into anything resembling a story with a beginning, middle and end. Once you've crafted a story, THEN you go out and recruit people to help you create the campaign. This is what I did to create DatDB.

Most importantly, you have to have a coherent vision of what you want. Six months ago, DatDB was nothing but a gleam in my eye. Then I removed my contact lens and got to work. It took me weeks just to organize my vision of DatDB. And I had to write it all down on Word, just so I could refer to it and refine it as I went. DatDB has been in the works for 6 months now and I still haven't finished scripting it yet. From what I gather, you have a great deal of work to do before you make even this much progress on your own project. You haven't even played the original game yet.

Snoj, pal, there is more to creating a campaign than just blowing hot air on an Internet forum. Don't waste time making grandiose claims here. Just get to work.

[Knight Templar]

You see I think there should be a main story. All the other MOD's are sub-stories. This would be the main story.
I want this to be the most secret MOD ever!
I also want this MOD to be made fast but polished at the same time.

wow.. all i can do is laugh very loudly.. enough to get the attention of my parents and just tell them that i have never seen anything so amusing in 3 days. next to the Bonsai-Kitten's that is

[Darkmage]

if you're going to call it freespace 3... contact V, I'd like to find out what they were planning for freespace 3. Find that out, and go from there.

[Black Wolf]

On Entire Community Projects -

When it began, Twisted Infinities was a community project - not the entire FS community of course, just F2S. It gained support because it was suggested as such - a community based campaign, set after FS2, which might answer a few questions - in short just like any other campaign. However, I really started to have trouble when it came to deciding how to do it - if a community project is not entirely open to the entire community, then it's not really a community project, but if it is, by the end you have a beautiful piece of Freespace work - which nobody wants to play, because they've already seen it. In TIs case, we opted to have a core staff of about 6, but subcontract out a lot of mods, ask for mission suggestions, see what people prioritize in their ships etc. etc. Of course, that never happened because F2S closed down, but my point is community wide projects are very, very difficult to run.

By the way, as long as I'm here anyway, I'd like to point out the similarities between this situation and the one Icefire created when he suggested Paradigm Shift. Unlike this one however, Icefire recieved offers of assistance and praise almost immediately. Now I do acknowledge that Icefire has been with the FS community longer, proven his skills in the past etc. etc., but I still think that the feeling on this thread is at least partially a direct result of (relative) newbie bashing.

Not goinmg to say anything more, just think about it.

[IPAndrews]

There will not be a FS3.

Please ensure this message is bumped at all times.






























Just kidding

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ
This is what I currently know about FS2. The Shivans come back. We beat them. Knossos tech make it possible to make subspace paths. Do I remember correctly? Does that sum up FS2?

Um... no. If you are going to do this I suggest you play FS2 again and take notes. If you want to supply answers you must make sure you have your facts right.

1. We didnt win, the Shevians let us off with a supernova for some reason.
2. We blew up the Knossos gate but have scans of how it work.

[KARMA]

Originally posted by mikhael

so you just think ppl should not look further than simple campaigns/mods some nice some less that only few will play, even inside the community, since we are only internet freaks with no chance to do something more complex
ok, this is your idea, but remember to go to the scp forum and tell them to stop what they are doing, before continue loosing their time in an useless project
stop them from trying to adapt the source code of the demo in order to have mods releasble as a stand alone exe
stop randomtiger from trying to upgrade the artwork side of fs2 in order to make the source code changes more evident
and go also to the b5 mod forum (and the other "big" projects too) to stop them since they are doing a project that they are not able to do...and they still haven't noticed it!!!
and personally i don't see what sense has the daveb post (that i already knew) about this, i mean.....
he was talking about a far FAR bigger project with people that not only didn't exactly knew if they had the capabilities to do it but that they also were starting the project from the end instead of from the beginning  
Except for the suggestion to do "baby steps" that is pretty obvious and works almost everywhere all the discussion has nothing to do with what i was talking about: 1- i was just throwing a little stone in the lake and more important 2-  we already know a lot about how to do things (no one specifically but the entire community does), how to mod the game, and if you talk about the level of artwork, althought we are little poor internet freaks there are, THERE ARE people capable of working if not at the same level of official games at least very close to, and models of that level have been already released sometimes...so my friend more than a problem of abilities it will be a problem of amount of time and efforts
And the scp changes are already in progress, indipendently from this fool project, so it will receive benefits from an improoved engine, somehow different from the fs2 one (so technically it won't be "simply" a mod), probably it will also be released as standalone exe.
and if this will happen it will make it more similar to an entire new game than a mod.....(this will be true for ANY mod)
And what's wrong with building an ideal sequel to the fs2 story? although undoubtly unofficial if the project will be done at an enough good quality level and will have enough (little) success (people like "free games") it will surely become a referring point
Don't you like the idea of a sequel?
ok no problem
lets build an indipendent/parallel storyline
Damn! Its 20 years that LEC is living creating parallel storylines from the main trilogy...a stupid example, the first thing that comes in my mind: an entire battlegroup is caught behind enemy lines from the destruction of the jumpnodes, the story follow their attempt to find a way to home facing shivans and trying to survive, there will be no bosh fate, no knossos to earth, no investigation about shivans origins, no new attack of shivans to gtva...
Yes, to be possible community support and large discussion about the story should be needed...its OBVIOUS that a large discussion involving ALL the community is impossible, this is the only point of your post with some sense, community IS disorganized and fragmented......ok, lets put together a team (maybe voting) that will study the story and organize all the efforts, paying attention to all the contributes, is this so impossible? i don't think so, community is surely disorganized and fragmented, but not SO disorganized and not SO fragmented, or the SCP project would be never begun pal..........
Yes a lot of work will be needed....but a lot of ships will be the same of fs2 (at least..those that appeared in the demo)..maybe they will require to be adapted to higher heights.....plus some new ships....i was saying to collect the best ships done by community....the ones at excellent quality and with fsverse style...i can think of at least 5-6 fighters and 2 maybe 3 capitalships that already have this standard done in the last year...and maybe there are others that i don't know....yes new models will be needed...but not SO MANY......
Yes, a lot of artwork job will be anyway required for all the aspects of the project (maybe it will be impossible to do everything), never said the opposite nor i'd like it to be different......but i won't surely call it impossible...maybe long, maybe difficult, but surely not impossible
For example i was suggesting to collapse aldos multiplayer mod with this project...it will work fine as the multiplayer side of this "game" and both projects will benefit from the efforts for the other one.....
i still see something surely difficult and long, but nothing impossible......
oh, and a little tip....even aside from modding....saying "no, its impossible" to everything usually brings you.....nowhere;)
oh and sorry for bad english;)

[HotSnoJ]

Thank you again all for your criticizing. It is very much appreciated.

Is all this nay saying about the name FS3? I suppose it is.

[Warlock]

I think the idea is pretty much simple,.....NOONE could claim there mod to be "FS3" unless Voilition gave them the story.

What if I go make a mod, have hellishly kickass new ships added,...make it 60 + missions with 4 different mission trees depending on different mission outcomes, and the main story line was that the Shivan were controlled by a race of blue intersteller pigmy rabbits ? ? If I choose to name it FS3 would ppl accept it as the Cannon sequel to the series because I put the time effort and skills into making it ?

A Mod is a mod is a mod,....the fact is ONLY V could make FS3. Persoanlly I think it's egotisical that anyone claim to be able to create a sequel forthe series.

Karma,...using SW is a great example,...you forgot one thing...Lucas has told every company what limits they have and where they can 'tread' within the storyline. If I recall there were several gaps in the time line that Darkhorse comics did because Lucas told them they were not allowed to "write that history" sort of speak. So comparing SW stories to user made MODs for FS doesn't really hold up buddy. Lucas and or his affliates give input into such stories,...Volition can't give us anything, thus nothing we ever do can honestly be concidered cannon.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Thank you again all for your criticizing. It is very much appreciated.

Is all this nay saying about the name FS3? I suppose it is.

Perhaps drop the name, its causing you too much trouble if you ask me.

I like the idea of a supermod, given all the skilled people here I know we could do something really good but do we have the ability to keep a large project like this together for long enough to finish it?

TBP and SCP are in their different ways very focused projects while something like this everything would be up for debate.

I would also like to see a few more normal MOD's finished first.

[Stryke 9]

Uh, you really aren't listening. The name isn't the real problem- it's a couple of words to identify the thing, and while you'll piss some people off by being pretentious, in the end it isn't really a major hurdle.

The problem is the whole "bestest campaign ever" syndrome. This sort of effort might work if you were a semiprofessional with a semipro staff who was really dedicated, but it isn't. You're a relative newbie who's never actually played the game he wants to mod, who hasn't taken the time to accumulate any real skills yet, having pipe dreams about being able to command a massive team of workers towards an end that generally takes on the order of years. Dream on. You couldn't even propose your campaign without generating flames, how do you think you're gonna control a staff? Even if some massive project were to go underway, it'd be by someone who'd built up a good bit of a rep here first, and knew how to boss people around without making everyone leave.

Wait a while. Work on others' campaigns, get some familiarity with your programs, learn something about the community you want to control. You ain't gonna write Shakespeare the first time you set pen to paper, and you ain't gonna make even a competent campaign, never mind a good one, never mind THE ULTIMATE CAMPAIGN [cue flash of lightning, reverb], if you have no experience at all in the field.

I highly don't recommend starting a campaign now, as it's mostly a waste of time except as a way to build some humility. You won't get much out of it, you'll end up losing a lot of free time and whatever social life you'll have, and you'll end up embittered and no wiser at the end because you can't get any staff and don't know what you're doing enough to even try to go it alone. I should know, I did it twice before I figured it out.

[RandomTiger]

I like this thread, Im finding this all very interesting. Five stars.

To newbies I say: 'FS3' is a very dangerous thing to say in just about any context on these boards.

To HotSnoJ I say: Given that you havent even played the game all the way through, know what happens or what its all about and that (if what I have read elsewhere is correct) you havent lead a mod or even done anything anyone seems to remember on one.

Given all this you are not at this time the 'right' person to suggest or implement such a plan. If you truely want to do this you should start your own small MOD and learn what you need from that and then I think you will understand why some of these people are giving you so much grief.

If it makes you feel any better, recently I have had some epic ideas on something I'd like to do with FS2, however my reality control will for now keep this as a nice idea in the back of my head until I see a chance for it.

To everyone else:

I guess this has brought up some interesting questions, what do we want from this community? How much can it deliver? Can we do anything really big (on the scale HotSnoJ suggests)? Could we ever finish it? Utimately how long will this all last anyway?

[Warlock]

Well ...after ppl complete the current mods a group effort with members from many of the current campaign teams could produce a huge MOD/Campaign. Just imagine if the teams from the top 3-6 campaigns teamed up once they completed the ones in production now.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by Warlock
Well ...after ppl complete the current mods a group effort with members from many of the current campaign teams could produce a huge MOD/Campaign. Just imagine if the teams from the top 3-6 campaigns teamed up once they completed the ones in production now.

[KARMA]

Originally posted by RandomTiger

To everyone else:

I guess this has brought up some interesting questions, what do we want from this community? How much can it deliver? Can we do anything really big (on the scale HotSnoJ suggests)? Could we ever finish it? Utimately how long will this all last anyway?

i already said what i think in my precedent reply,

specifically about me in my case swmod has precedence but i will surely collaborate with ideas and with artwork when i'll have time and whenever i will think the project will be worth to (like i think of multiplayer mod)

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by Warlock
Well ...after ppl complete the current mods a group effort with members from many of the current campaign teams could produce a huge MOD/Campaign. Just imagine if the teams from the top 3-6 campaigns teamed up once they completed the ones in production now.

Which would be the top 3-6 campaigns anyway? The ones with the best chance of becoming 'FS 2.996634'? BWO would obviously get in there, and OTT possibly - what else?

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by Black Wolf


Which would be the top 3-6 campaigns anyway? The ones with the best chance of becoming 'FS 2.996634'? BWO would obviously get in there, and OTT possibly - what else?

The best ones will be the ones that get finished without feeling like people lost interest in the end and maintained quality all the way through.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Black Wolf


Which would be the top 3-6 campaigns anyway? The ones with the best chance of becoming 'FS 2.996634'? BWO would obviously get in there, and OTT possibly - what else?

Paradigm Shift (when it kicks into gear).  Machina Terra, if it's ever finished.  I'd be vain and say Reciprocity , but it's far too far from what would be semi-canon to count

[Warlock]

I didn't name the best for a reason. The idea was imagine if the ones YOU think are the best teamed up. It was merely my way to get everyone to imagine the potential this community has as a whole.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by Warlock
I didn't name the best for a reason. The idea was imagine if the ones YOU think are the best teamed up. It was merely my way to get everyone to imagine the potential this community has as a whole.

Ah - makes sense now. I agree we have a lot of potential - not frequenting many other forums I really don't have a lot to compare FS2 work to, but it does strike me that we have of quality here. If someone was a capable enough leader, we'd produce something special, no doubt. Problem is, FS2's a relatively rare game - we wouldn't get the exposure that, say, a Half Life mod gets.