[mikhael]

Originally posted by EdrickV


 

Please. Both of those cringe before the almighty power of the HOTAS/Cougar:


Its what the Saitek wants to be. Its all metal and weighs in at 13lbs total. Its got heavy duty industrial grade springs for a damned tight throw and a solid trigger.

The "Top Gun" shouldn't even bear the proud Thrustmaster name. Its just some crappy Guillemot POS that they tarted up and paraded out wearing a Thrustmaster logo.

[EdrickV]

Originally posted by mikhael

Its what the Saitek wants to be. Its all metal and weighs in at 13lbs total. Its got heavy duty industrial grade springs for a damned tight throw and a solid trigger.

Save for 2 things, the Cougar looks very much like the X45.
1. HOTAS Cougar (PC) - $299.99, X45 Digital Joystick and Throttle $79.95

2. The Cougar is likely a lot heavier (not a benefit to me) and has that little plaque on it.

I'm not sure, but it looks like the Cougar may not be as programmable as the X45 is. Between the 3 way mode select and pinkie shift trigger, the other buttons, axis, and hat switches can have up to 6 different functions. (Or sets of functions for hat switches.)
Since I use my joystick in my lap (nowhere to move the keyboard to without depriving me of it's use) moving the throttle unit and stick apart hasn't been a consideration but it looks like it has a long cord to connect the two. (Mine has still got it's twisty tie on.)

[Galemp]

I just ordered the perfect joystick, to replace the one I broke earlier this year. Same model--the Panther XL.



I can't imagine playing Freespace with anything else, though I've been using the keyboard for model testing.

[GT-Keravnos]

Well,

Sidewinder Pro for a Joystick (Real vibrations anybody)

WITH

Strategic Commander (for thrust and not just) (30 different Key combinations)

AND

FREEWARE voice commander in

http://clans.gameclubcentral.com/shoot/

(works too!)

---Just copy and edited an existing profile. Wordpad will do. Opens those files just fine. Just make sure that you dont accidently save it as a txt--

Keep shootin!

[mikhael]

Originally posted by EdrickV

Save for 2 things, the Cougar looks very much like the X45.

The Saitek ripped off the design layout from a long line of Thrustmaster (and to be fair C.H. Products) sticks.

1. HOTAS Cougar (PC) - $299.99, X45 Digital Joystick and Throttle $79.95

2. The Cougar is likely a lot heavier (not a benefit to me) and has that little plaque on it.

Yes. The HOTAS/Cougar is indeed the more expensive stick. It also does not suffer from the shoddy construction of Saitek sticks. Saitek springs have to be replaced about every six months, and the sticks wear out after a year--unless they've updated their quality control. You'll have proper Thrustmaster Stick for near a decade (8yrs for one of mine, 7 for the other). The Cougar is 13lbs. Its very heavy, being made entirely of... well, METAL. I prefer a heavy stick. They tend to stay in place better.

What difference does the plaque make?

I'm not sure, but it looks like the Cougar may not be as programmable as the X45 is. Between the 3 way mode select and pinkie shift trigger, the other buttons, axis, and hat switches can have up to 6 different functions. (Or sets of functions for hat switches.)
Since I use my joystick in my lap (nowhere to move the keyboard to without depriving me of it's use) moving the throttle unit and stick apart hasn't been a consideration but it looks like it has a long cord to connect the two. (Mine has still got it's twisty tie on.)

There is no stick as programmable as a Thrustmaster. If you look at it from a pure button pushing point of view, the Cougar has a shifter under the right pinky, and a three position switch on the throttle. Given the number of OTHER buttons on the Cougar, this gives you 336 distinct programmable combinations.  Then consider that the Cougar's programming setup ridiculously powerful.

Not only can you create virtual buttons (IE, while hat1 is UP and the Afterburner is DOWN, register Virtual Button X),  you can make  each programmable "button" can cycle through lists of commands, assign a command for button presses and other commands for button releases (and in the case of the hats, return-to-center events). You can program each axis (there are 5 on the stick) individually, to give up/down events, ramp up events (a nuetral value and then several values spaced across the throw to maximum) or leave them analog.  You can also set up logical functionality. For example, you can set your stick to remember if you've triggered "Gear Down",  and then will handle a "flaps down" event properly.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Set it to the relative throttle in FS2's control config, not the absolute throttle.

I had a rather wierd experience with that. I set it to relative throttle, and it worked backword. One of the wierder experiences of my gaming carreer.

[demon442]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I had a rather wierd experience with that. I set it to relative throttle, and it worked backword. One of the wierder experiences of my gaming carreer.

did the same for me, thats what the Invert button if for.

[Star Dragon]

Yeah voice is cool... Like in a dogfight if I see something and fight like mad to get my gunsight on the traget even just for an instant (like a dragon or something) I can say "target" and it is targeted (Muhaha) and if I say "Match" (you get it)... ect ect... Oh better yet If I can't see a target in the distance clearly and still ambusy I quickly "target" it and say "view from target". then I can get a quick looksee around it and the area it's in (sneaky huh?)

"Command, there isn't ONE Raksaha in the asteroid field, it's a whole freaking ARMADA!!!"

[Defconca]

Looks at all the decent joysticks people have then cries over scabby piece of equipment languishing in the corner of the desk. Saitek SP550, 2 triggers, 6 buttons for targeting, countermeasures and afterburner, a throttle and a hatswitch that doesnt seem to like being remapped....oh i almost forgot the 'added extra' THE DAMN ANNOYING SQUEEK everytime you move it! *sigh* thats what you get if you choose price over quality...

[mikhael]

ITS ALIVE!


By sheer geek willpower, application of a soldering iron, and several spare parts pulled out of my spare stick and throttle, MY HOTAS/F16-FLCS and F16/TQS THROTTLES LIVE A LITTLE WHILE LONGER! I 0WN SHIVANS AGAIN!

I seem to have lost about 50% of the dive throw on the stick though. I might be able to adjust for that if I can't find the cause of the failure.

All that's important is that I have proper controls again, that may be able to tide me over until I can get a HOTAS/Cougar.

[Fetty]

i broken 2 joystiks durring my fs2 time
logitech wingam extreme (the OLD one)
and logitech wingman intrceptor
and since all the new joystiks sucked and i couldnt play with em i got myself brand old m$ 3d pro wich is about to fall appart soon due to exessive mw4 and fs2 singe player using

did i mention i never used the throtle on my sticks ? never used rolling too just for movement fire 1 and fire2 nothing more

[Hippo]

Originally posted by mikhael
A) not having a proper joystick and throttle rig (RIP my Thrustmaster HOTAS setup)


It might be time to break out the soldering iron and see what I can do with my old stick and throttle and make them work. Until i have a job again, a HOTAS/Cougar setup is going to be a long way off.

My thrustmaster Top Gun 2 did that... the wires inside of the unit were glued too tight and they kept stretching while increasing throtle...

[CP5670]

Are there any other keyboard-only people here? The default key mappings suck, but keyboard is the way to go for me.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Keyboard Only?!?! HOW do you aim?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Fetty
i broken 2 joystiks durring my fs2 time
logitech wingam extreme (the OLD one)
and logitech wingman intrceptor
and since all the new joystiks sucked and i couldnt play with em i got myself brand old m$ 3d pro wich is about to fall appart soon due to exessive mw4 and fs2 singe player using

did i mention i never used the throtle on my sticks ? never used rolling too just for movement fire 1 and fire2 nothing more

Hah!  My joystick has laster about 8 years!

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael

The Saitek ripped off the design layout from a long line of Thrustmaster (and to be fair C.H. Products) sticks.
 

just to say the riginal thrustmaster flightstick was a direct ripp off the real F16 stick, so there's nothing terribly great in having such a design. Hail the General Dynamics engineers
I have a sidewinder precision pro2, which is good but could be so much better...
used to play on a sidewider gamepad ( the first one ), wasn't that bad.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by venom2506


just to say the riginal thrustmaster flightstick was a direct ripp off the real F16 stick...

Um no, it was a licensed design. That quite different from a "rip off".

Further, that's not the "original" Thrustmaster, either. The original Thrustmaster stick was a sort of stylized Korean conflict era stick, and the throttle was this weird organic thing. The F16-TQS throttle is, naturally, also a design licensed from the real F16. I think, however, that you will find that the button layout, even on the F16 line of products is very different than on the "real thing". They were only after the look of the stick, not the buttons.

When I say that the Saitek was ripped off from the Thrustmaster, however, I'm not talking about the physical design, so much as I am talking about the switches and their layout. They replaced the three position slider with a three position rocker, and they got rid of the Radio Frequency hat in favor of another rocker (arguably a better design for a cheap game stick). Unfortunately, they didn't ripoff the things that made Thrustmaster products such good sticks (back then. Top Gun sticks and the like are NOT Thrustmaster products). Rather than using solid springs, Saitek opted for cheap ass, lightweight springs through all of their designs. This lowered the production costs, but translated directly into more stick failures (The Cyborg line is particularly notorious. The springs in the trigger and the base of the stick seldom last out an entire year). These cheaper springs give the Saitek a lighter touch, which makes the sticks jittery. Also, they used poor quality potentiometers (something Thrustmaster was also guilty of later in the F22-Pro stick. Thrustmaster instituted a replacement program. Saitek did not.). Finally Saitek failed to ripoff the two most important things about Thrustmaster HOTAS products: compatibility and programmability.
F16-FLCS, F16-TQS, F22-Pro and all other pre-Guillemot Thrustmaster gear work on DOS, Win3.x, Win9x, WinNT, Win2k, WinXP, and Linux/Unix without a special driver anywhere. All you needed was a gameport and a keyboard port.
On the programmability side, Thrustmaster HOTAS products are smarter than any other product out there--read the longwinded post I made further back about them. Saitek products are very limited.

[Nuclear1]

Originally posted by CP5670
Are there any other keyboard-only people here? The default key mappings suck, but keyboard is the way to go for me.

Im withca

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael

F16-FLCS, F16-TQS, F22-Pro and all other pre-Guillemot Thrustmaster gear work on DOS, Win3.x, Win9x, WinNT, Win2k, WinXP, and Linux/Unix without a special driver anywhere. All you needed was a gameport and a keyboard port.  

you gotta be josking, the FLCS was a nightmare to run under DOS. Btw, when I talk about original thrustmaster, you must read, in my weird language , "FLCS", coz it's the one that made thrust famous.

on a side note, it is funny to think that whenever you reply to me, there's often enough words to fill a pocket book page

[Fetty]

Originally posted by aldo_14


Hah!  My joystick has laster about 8 years!

i bought my wingman extreme in 1994 or 95 but i realy was a fs2 adict and i guess i was just to strong for those stiks
(and the interceptor was very poorly asembled)