Author Topic: The Shivans - why do they do what they do...  (Read 12710 times)

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Offline jdjtcagle

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
It was in Petrarchs speaches... that's why he said speculate

I don't see how you would be able to activate something like this, without some kind of "instrution"
But ok...
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Offline aldo_14

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
You forget Aldo
It was speculated by the GTVA that Bosch was in Deneb studying Ancient artifacts to activate the device...

So is that what he was doing in Deneb?
If so that would of ment he found instructions for a device on Ancient ground
 


None of that says the Ancients actually built the Knossos, only that they found it (well, them) and worked out how to 'activate' it.

Gotta admit, it's a nice prospect for opening up the storyline.

Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2004, 11:24:38 am by 181 »

 

Offline ffRule

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
well.. according to what the ancients claim the shivans are not really that evil, they destroy evil, they are like galaxy's cops.

once the ancients found subspace they also found other alien life, they crushed billions of other cultures for theyre resources..
then the destroyers came for them, and would not stop until they all paid.

once the terrans found subspace they met the vesudens, not much after that the great war started, because of the unrest the shivens came.. and 14 years of fighting between terrans and vesudens ended.
it is my beleif that if the shivens wanted to they couldve sent a dozen lucifers, unlike with the ancients the shivens did not decide to eliminate the terrans, more like teach them a lesson.
if the terrans and vesudens wouldnt of united the lucifer wouldve taken earth aswell.

same in FS2, our entrance to the knossos was tresspassing, we had no place there.
the Sathanas couldve taken the entire GTVA, but they chose not to, instead they just closed the door on us.

so i think the shivans are basically our "big brother" just waiting for us to get cocky so he can slap us silly and put us in our place.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2004, 11:36:40 am by 2169 »

 

Offline Rift

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Perhaps the Shivans were just created by another race, to watch out for the galaxy. That would explain part of the Shivan's uninterest of planets. Created to live in space. But, as an avid tactian, I only see a few reasons for "running" away.

Many theories were described.
Here are some more.
1. Fleet was suicidal, meant to disrupt, pull attention away from something/someplace else.
2. Shivans were perhaps drawn to conflict, to end conflict by ie. destroying the races in conflict, or uniting them against one enemy.
3. They do not understand us, and are simply curious
4. They failed to communicate with us, and tried to teach us simple things. ("Go away, or we blow you to bits", shown as blowing up big structure, then leaving.)
5. The Shivans want to end the war with the least casualties.

And so on, and so on, etc...
We're going to have to get the :V: writers to give us the script :)
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Offline Eishtmo

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
None of that says the Ancients actually built the Knossos, only that they found it (well, them) and worked out how to 'activate' it.


This does, sm2-01.fsm:

Quote
Dr. Hargrove's task force has determined that the subspace portal in Gamma Draconis was constructed by the Ancients,


I figure the GTVA has seen enough Ancient artifacts to know if they did or did not build something.

Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Capella is a binary...
IIRC, a trinary


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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


The 80 saths surrounded the star for quite a while before they fired. Most likely the weapon requires careful calibration. Either that or it's completely useless against capships because it does something specific to the star.


Well, in the cutscene it doesn´t look like it took much time. The arms of the Sathanas moved and joined, and in a few seconds of charging, they fired. Wich means the weapon can be activated in a matter of minutes, not weeks. They probably took longer to get in position, or wait a certain phase of the star.
As for being more economic to use regular beam weapons, that seems a bit off. Why would they care about energy economy, if they are dead?? Had they used the uber weapon, they would have taken out the Colossus, and not the other way around. Besides, the Sathanas had no beams left, Alpha 1 took them out in the previous mission. So, if they had the weapon, why didn´t they use it and save their shivan behinds?

That weapon could be specific for disrupting stars, but i like to think that anything that does that to a star has more than enough power to shred 100 Colossus.
It could be that because Alpha 1 took out the tip of the Sathana´s arms, the weapon was destroyed. But that doesn´t explain why they didn´t use it in previous ocasions, or during the last battle with the Colossus.

This answer goes to Carl aswell, who said it took them weeks to charge up the weapons.

Of course, this is all academical. It could be that they just didn´t pay their light bill, and had their power cut off by the Power Company!
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Offline karajorma

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Well, in the cutscene it doesn´t look like it took much time. The arms of the Sathanas moved and joined, and in a few seconds of charging, they fired. Wich means the weapon can be activated in a matter of minutes, not weeks. They probably took longer to get in position, or wait a certain phase of the star.


Yes but you have to remember what petrach said in an earlier mission. The 80 saths surrounded the star and then sat there for the duration of at least one whole mission.

What were they doing during that time? Considering the increased subspace readings this was almost certainly part of the process required to blow up Capella.

What we saw in the cutscene was the last step in the process not the whole of it.
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Offline Kosh

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
I figure the GTVA has seen enough Ancient artifacts to know if they did or did not build something.


That does make sense. They have had 30 something years to play around with artifacts from Altair and other places.
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Offline aldo_14

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by Eishtmo


This does, sm2-01.fsm:



I figure the GTVA has seen enough Ancient artifacts to know if they did or did not build something.

 


:o

My bad, not got easy access to the cbanis :)

Damn, had a nice chain of thought going there, too.

[topic switch]

IIRC, the Sathani didn't fire as such, did they?  It's been a while since I saw the mve, but I'm sure they actually closed their 'arms', and then drew them back apart, creating a sort of distorted 'hole' in space.  Then Capella nova-ed.....

maybe they were using the star for a power source, and simply goofed up?

 

Offline Eishtmo

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
My bad, not got easy access to the cbanis :)


Is that a hint to transfer the whole of FS's campaign/mission briefings/debriefings into Wiki?

I could do it, but it would take a while.
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Offline aldo_14

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by Eishtmo


Is that a hint to transfer the whole of FS's campaign/mission briefings/debriefings into Wiki?

I could do it, but it would take a while.


Er, yes.  (not really, but if you're volunteering.........)

 

Offline Eishtmo

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Already did it:

FS1
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FS2

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Offline Vaelinx

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by HeX


Well considering the Anchients produced the Knossos technology, which was fairly beyond the grasp of GTVA scientists, I think we can safely say they were fairly advanced, comparitively speaking.

As for beam tech, we don't know if it could defeat the Lucifer. I don't see how it could have seeing as the shield withstood multi-megaton warheads.

The Luicfer itself stands as a bit of an enigma. Was it a special type of ship? A prototype? If not, why didn't other ships carry the shield technology? Surely the Ravana or Sathanas class could have powered such technology. The Lucifer wasn't even as powerful as those two ship classes, only it's shield gave it an advantage.

The Shivans are the origin of shield tech, we got it off their own fighters. They have sufficent advances to shield a single cap ship, why not others? (of course skipping the obvious answer that it would have made the game TOTALLY unfair :D ).

The Shivans have quite a few alien traits about them. Their thinking most of all. They make a single attempt at devestating the GTA and VPA, then years later, with a fleet that could have easily done what the Lucifer failed to do, they simply blow up a star, seal off a jump lane, and vanish. Leaves many a question.


Even though this has been optionally modded out for gameplay reasons.

Keep in mind that in retail FS2, beams go straight through shields.  

This seems deliberate to me, something that [V] put in there on purpose.  Now there are those here who may know better than me, and it may have been and oversight on [V]'s part not to have shields work against beams.  But, fighter shields don't work on fighter beams, so cap ship shields may not work on cap ship beams... :cool:  So the Lucifer would probably fall easily to the Collossus...
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Offline magatsu1

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
well the Lucifier was the benchmark for the Colossus.
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Offline Solatar

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
IIRC the Collossus was desgined to destroy a Lucifer, or other smaller ships.

On another note, I'd hate to see what a Sathanas could do to a planet firing BFReds at it...

 

Offline aldo_14

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar
IIRC the Collossus was desgined to destroy a Lucifer, or other smaller ships.

On another note, I'd hate to see what a Sathanas could do to a planet firing BFReds at it...


Yeah, if you look at the C it's not really designed to bring all its weaponry to bear on a single target as the Sathanas is.  Course, if you added in the turrets dropped from the model (i.e. in tbl comments)...you'd have a real monster of a ship.

  

Offline StratComm

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
So that's why it fires those puny missiles out of such big turrets.  Those turrets that should have gotten the extra BGreens wound up with MX-50's.
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Offline Kosh

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The Shivans - why do they do what they do...
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar
IIRC the Collossus was desgined to destroy a Lucifer, or other smaller ships.

On another note, I'd hate to see what a Sathanas could do to a planet firing BFReds at it...



The Collossus did have pretty good firepower, but it was all spread around. The Sathanas had 95% of its firepower directly in front of it. It only had one LRed turret to protect it's backside.
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