[Ghostavo]

32 years after the Great War, we still know almost nothing about the Shivans.

Physically, the Shivans have multiple, compound eyes and five legs with claw-like manipulators. Their insect-like carapace does not appear original to the creature's physiognomy, suggesting the Shivans are a cybernetic fusion of biology and technology. The integrated plasma weapon also exhibits properties of an organic-artificial fusion. The weapon may be a kind of focusing device powered by the energy of the being itself, though this point is the subject of heated controversy.

These details are cited as evidence that the Shivans could not have evolved as the Terran or Vasudan species had, but that they were likely constructed by another entity. Only a handful of Shivans have ever been captured, and all research on live specimens ended with the GTI's Hades rebellion in 2335. The results of these studies remain highly classified.

Though the Shivans are obviously xenocidal, their motives and origins have yet to be determined. According to Ancient artifacts, the Shivans seem to possess some kind of sensitivity to subspace disturbances. We do not know if the Shivans returned to this corner of the galaxy by chance, by cycle or pattern, or by their detection of Terran-Vasudan subspace travel.  

Xenobiologists know very little about Shivan society. A leading hypothesis is the hive mind theory, arguing that Shivan society is broken down in specialized functions driven by a collective intelligence. The most convincing evidence supporting this theory is the behavior of Shivan forces following the destruction of the Lucifer, the turning point of the Great War. Other experts caution against attributing insectoid properties to the Shivans, regardless of their appearance and behavior. Shivan communication seems to occur in the electromagnetic spectrum, though efforts to decode their transmissions have yielded no meaningful results to date.

[aldo_14]

Zigackly.  We know nothing.

So we make **** up, and pick what suits it.  And then argue

(why?  Because quite often people have a campaign going on which relies on said theories, and hence conceding the point would invalidate that work in some way)

[Flipside]

....Because if the Shivans had 3 ships, a tug and a deep-space probe Freespace wouldn't have sold as much?

Personally, I don't think the Shivans have limitless ships, I just think they have a lot more than the GTVA

[Ace]

Originally posted by TopAce
I remember one/some of the command briefings say: Shivan Hive.

Not in FS1 or 2. In fan campaigns? Yes.

[Flipside]

Yep, I haven't seen it in the main game, though I think the term 'Hive' is simply used to define 'base' in those campaigns.

[Lightspeed]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing

@Lightspeed.

Ants are even more shockingly similar to shivans than to humans.
They have both an insect appearence, with exoskeletons, they have a hive kind of mentality (as proven when several Sathanas stayed behind to destroy the Capella star), they are highly organized and linear as a society, unlike humans that have all kinds of disruptions to society, as poverty, drugs, crime, etc etc.  

Now, I have to elaborate. First magnificently huge difference is, humans lead wars intra-species. This is most characteristic for ants where different tribes literally lead a war and slaughter each other. Have you ever seen shivans fighting shivans?
Point one. Point two, I'd hardly call the shivan appearance "insectoid". Has an insect five legs? Most insects have two eyes. Insects don't move like the shivans. Big difference
Also, the few Sathani that stayed behind, simply did so because they had run out of power (see the cutscene, their energy is completely off - those that still have enough power left, jump).

 

And above all, you won´t see ants or shivans making war on their own kind. They only fight other species/races. I have never seen a shivan kill another shivan, have you? But humans and vasudans do it all the time, i.e Hammer of Light and NTF.  

First sentence is hilariously wrong (see above). That's why I compare ants to humans, NOT to shivans.

About the hive-mind thingy:

In my very own theory, shivans indeed function in a certain hive mind way. While the shivans we "meet" are "individuals", the majority of shivans dwell in subspace, not in any form of solid matter as we know it. They're all one. One large "presence". The shivans we get to see in hallfight are merely constructs for the shivans to be able to do something (move, fly ships, etc) outside subspace. Same deal with the ships - they're only built so the shivans can hurt us "non-subspacy" beings.
This explains the way shivans act, there is actually only "one" shivan. Each of the exo-skeletoned shivans is merely a part of the whole.

[Flipside]

Insects do not attack insects of the same Hive unless neccesity demands it though. Ants are divided up into thousands of smaller hive-minds. Think 'Borg', Borg don't fight each other because they are all of the same collective mind.

So if the Shivans are one Huge entity, even if they have bases and the like all over the place, they would not fight against each other. The thing is that a great number of insectoid life forms don't behave like insects, Ants are perfectly capable of functioning if the queen is killed, carrying the eggs off to build a new nest and raise a new queen, whereas Bees tend to go all the pieces if the Queen is killed. So anythings possible really

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Flipside
Insects do not attack insects of the same Hive unless neccesity demands it though. Ants are divided up into thousands of smaller hive-minds.

Wich was the point i was making to Lightspeed. When refering to the ants, it´s implicit that we are talking of one colony. Ants of the same colony do not make war on eachother. And i venture further in saying that they don´t do war to ants of the same species but diferent colonies. They do make war, but it´s a species vs species, like black ants versus red ants.
Within the colony, or hive, there is no conflict. There are no "tribes" in ant society, Lightspeed.

Ants are perfectly capable of functioning if the queen is killed, carrying the eggs off to build a new nest and raise a new queen, whereas Bees tend to go all the pieces if the Queen is killed. So anythings possible really [/B]

Sorry, that is completely wrong. The queen is needed to infuse a special kind of feromones into the eggs to create other queens. The queen does this to only a handfull of eggs, once a year. And the new born queens leave the colony at first rains. So, if she were to die, the colony would die as there are no more queen eggs, and no more eggs to continue to supply the colony with new ants.

Seems to me that even canon descriptions make the shivans look like an ant or bee kind of society, and having hive mind. It´s the best corroborated-by-canon-writings theory.

[Lightspeed]

Wich was the point i was making to Lightspeed. When refering to the ants, it´s implicit that we are talking of one colony. Ants of the same colony do not make war on eachother. And i venture further in saying that they don´t do war to ants of the same species but diferent colonies. They do make war, but it´s a species vs species, like black ants versus red ants.

You're wrong. Different colonies of exactly the same species can lead wars. And the point I was trying to make is, that as it seems there's no colonies of shivans, but they are ALL united. Much unlike humans or ants for that matter.

[Ghostavo]

Ants expand once a new queen is formed and form a completly new colony which CAN be hostile to the former one if they interfere with each other, insects have six legs, hive minds are likely to have queens. None of these things have ever been displayed by shivans...

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Lightspeed


You're wrong. Different colonies of exactly the same species can lead wars. And the point I was trying to make is, that as it seems there's no colonies of shivans, but they are ALL united. Much unlike humans or ants for that matter.

There is only one species of ants that do that (the brasilian warrior ants), as opposed to the dozens others that don´t. So, generally speaking, they don´t make war on their own kind.
And don´t be so literal about this. I said shivan are kind of LIKE ants, not that they ARE ants.

[Lightspeed]

You mean they are p-ants?

[Flipside]

Swamp Thing, I may have got things the wrong way round, but I'm pretty certain that some species of insect has 'Nursery' creatures that can create a Queen larvae, by feeding it an equivalent of 'Royal Jelly' even if the original Queen is not around.

Oh and Ghostavo, whilst this is true, as has been said, it doesn't mean that Shivans 'are' insects, it just means their society appears to display certain attributes of said society from our own limited knowledge

[Ghostavo]

I never said they were, nor did I want to believe they were, Shivans have 5 legs, insects have 6, that's all there is to it.

Oh and...

http://www.myrmecology.info/portal/e107_plugins/faq/faq.php?view.44

Even same species of different colonies have a "different" chemical odor (signature) ants are sensitive to this and generally will attack to defend their colony and territory.

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Flipside
Swamp Thing, I may have got things the wrong way round, but I'm pretty certain that some species of insect has 'Nursery' creatures that can create a Queen larvae, by feeding it an equivalent of 'Royal Jelly' even if the original Queen is not around.
 

You are absolutely right! Ants are just like that!  But for the drones to feed the crysalis with that special brew, they need to be "activated", so to speak. And the activation key is a feromone that the queen infuses a certain egg with, when she thinks it´time to grow a new queen.
The drones don´t do it of their own volition, they need the command. And that command is only given by the queen.

[Carl]

Originally posted by Cyker
Maybe they grow them too!
Like, say, when a mummy Sathanas and a daddy Sathanaus get together and... um... actually lets terminate that line of thought.

"...and the daddy Sathanus puts his beam cannon into the mommy Sathanus's Fighterbay..."

[Flipside]

LOL I suppose, at the end of the day, it's like asking how they managed to communicate in the middle of an EMP storm in a Nebula, the excuses could go all the way from 'Ah, but the EMP storm was their communication' to 'Cos' [V] said so'

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
I never said they were, nor did I want to believe they were, Shivans have 5 legs, insects have 6, that's all there is to it.
 

You are forgeting that shivans, although of hive mentality, are inteligent creatures and as such have a diferent evolution than non~inteligent insects. While normal insects will evolve to have a better set of claws, or bigger eyes, or wings, the inteligent insectoid will grow opposable thumbs, a bigger cranial chamber, vocal chords, even walk in two legs. The evolution is diferent. And shivans are a very old species, wich means they had plenty of time to evolve into a form somewhat diferent of regular earth insects.
You are forgeting also, that diferent planets generate diferent types of locomotion, diferent kinds of feeding habbits, mating, and later on civilization.
Tha ant/bee vs shivans analogy is meant only to compare their sociology, not for their morphology.

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by Flipside
Oh and Ghostavo, whilst this is true, as has been said, it doesn't mean that Shivans 'are' insects, it just means their society appears to display certain attributes of said society from our own limited knowledge

I was answering this, sorry for not quoting him earlier.

[Carl]

just a quick reality check: we are debating and theorizing about something that we know there isn't an actual answer to, because it's all just made up.