[Kie99]

I've heard people saying that the Vasudans may have descended from the ancients, does snyone have any evidence for this?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
I've heard people saying that the Vasudans may have descended from the ancients, does snyone have any evidence for this?

Nothing solid.   IIRC the Vasudans were able to develop space travel fairly rapidly, which could be considered as due to some form of Ancient influence.  

Also that they possibly could read Ancient (enough to realise the significance of the Altair ruins - can someone check FS1 for this please?), and that they knew of the Shivans through legend (HoL), could lead credence to that.... plus the fact they survived the Ancients, who were an aggressive race (it's not clear how aggressive, though)....

So you could draw the conclusion that they were either influenced by an Ancient (refugee?) presence, or that they themselves are remnants of the Ancients.  I'm not a fan of the latter idea.

[Goober5000]

The Ancients' cutscene says "We encountered other advanced life, and we subdued it or we crushed it."  Perhaps the Ancients visited Vasuda Prime when the Vasudans were still very primitive, and enslaved them instead of eliminating them.  Later, when the Ancients withdrew to their home system, it's possible that the Vasudans learned a little bit of what was going on.  Afterwards, the incomplete facts became myth and legend.

Consider, from the Vasudans' point of view:
1) Real powerful aliens arrive, take over the planet, and enslave us.
2) The aliens tell us glorious stories of their empire and their people (not outside the realm of possibility).
3) The aliens wage war with the destroyers.
4) The destroyers start winning.
5) The aliens evacuate our planet because the destroyers are coming.
6) Nothing is heard from the aliens or the destroyers again.

(We can speculate that the Shivans ignored Vasuda Prime because nobody was travelling through subspace after the Ancients left.)

So the last thing the Vasudans hear is that "the destroyers are coming".  When nothing happens after a number of years, that possibly transforms into "the destroyers came after the aliens, and they will come after us when we become like the aliens".

[karajorma]

There's very little evidence at all in fact. As Aldo pointed out there is some evidence that the vasudans may have had contact with the ancients but even that is sketchy. Lots of cultures have similar myths about the end of the world. The myth the HOL based their religion on could be from a completely non-Ancient source.

 I'm of the basic opinion that you're welcome to use it as a plot point in your campaign but you can't say anything to anyone who doesn't

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma
There's very little evidence at all in fact. As Aldo pointed out there is some evidence that the vasudans may have had contact with the ancients but even that is sketchy. Lots of cultures have similar myths about the end of the world. The myth the HOL based their religion on could be from a completely non-Ancient source.

 

One interesting thing I noted going through the Wiki species entry is that the HoL believes in obscure prophecies written thousands of years ago.  Which, if you are very flexible and account for the destruction of the Ancients 8000 years prior as being in the time period of these writings, could be interpreted as evidence.

Of course, it could just be that a single Ancients escape pod crashed on Vasuda and the forerunner Vasudans were able to translate it.  Or maybe they simply saw explosions in the sky.

[karajorma]

That's my point. There's no actual evidence. Just comments which you can turn into evidence like you did there.

[Antares]

The strongest evidence in favor of the Vasudans having Ancient ancestry comes from FS2 text (either in the database, or in mission briefings, I don't quite recall) that all of the various artifact sites--Altair, Deneb, and so on--were discovered in what eventually became Vasudan space, suggesting that the survivors of the war against the Shivans later 'repopulated' to grow into the Vasudan species.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

mhh, I think i'll have a look through all the info again someday. Including the FS reference bible.

IIRC, I believe there's some stuff in the whole thing that supports the influence theory rather than descent theory. At least that's what I remember when I made a post on the link ages ago on the VBB.

If I study the stuff again I might be able to reconstruct that post.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma
That's my point. There's no actual evidence. Just comments which you can turn into evidence like you did there.

Tenuous as soggy spaghetti.........

Actually, I kind of like the idea that the Vasudans witnessed a massive battle in the night sky as the Ancients fought the Shivans.  I wanted to work the same thing into Reci, have a mythological / legend reference to a battle which occured between the Shivans / Nightmares in Sol.  Possibly causing the Star of Bethlehem.

Dumped this, tho - continuity for that part of the story was a *****.

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Antares
The strongest evidence in favor of the Vasudans having Ancient ancestry comes from FS2 text (either in the database, or in mission briefings, I don't quite recall) that all of the various artifact sites--Altair, Deneb, and so on--were discovered in what eventually became Vasudan space, suggesting that the survivors of the war against the Shivans later 'repopulated' to grow into the Vasudan species.

I doubt that. But I don't think that Vasudan colonization of Ancient worlds was purely accidental. If the worlds could sustain ancients, it'd certainly sustain the Vasudans, and finding the planets capable of sustaining Vasudan life was the primary focus of Vasudan space exploration.

I also doubt the lineage of Vasudans from Ancients. Vasudans are great linguistics. The first Terran-Vasudan translators were created by the Vasudans. It is more likely that the Vasudans deciphered the ancient text rather than passed it down through the generations.

Although it is possible that they were amongst the species 'subdued' by the ancients. Vasudans are physically very strong. And the labor they're capable of would be worth enslaving them for. Most likely was.

[Goober5000]

Here's what the FSRef Bible says...

It is suspected that the Vasudans may have actually been visited long ago in their past by another race, simply called “the Ancients”.  Not much is known about this race, but from archaeological digs, it seems that they originated from a system nearby to Vasuda Prime.  Since it is unlikely that Vasuda Prime could have sustained a primitive race for long enough to develop space travel, it is not unfeasible that “the Ancients” may have helped Vasudan culture develop enough to allow them to survive.  

However, all evidence of “the Ancients” is mysteriously cut off after a certain point in time, leading scientists to believe there was some kind of cataclysm which befell their culture.  Other more religious groups claim that they were destroyed by a powerful cleansing force, and that the same would happen to the Vasudans when they became too prideful.  They claim that the ancients left a prophecy detailing the destruction of themselves, and the subsequent destruction of the Vasudans.  Most modern Vasudans have abandoned this mythos, and believe that “the Ancients” were just another spacefaring race that stayed in the area for awhile, then moved on to more fertile systems.

I did a "find in file" search on the word "ancient" in all the FS1 and FS2 mission and table data, plus the Ref Bible, and this was the most descriptive.

[Kosh]

That quote does make a lot of sense.

[Carl]

i had thought it was pretty clear that the ancients had visited the vasudans in the past. remember a huge discussion on this from the VBB, were it was finally settled upon.

[Cyker]

IMHO the Ancients were already ancient long before the Vasudans took to the stars.

I reckon they just stumbled over lots of relics while exploring - As is said, a lot of artifacts (artefacts?) were found on planets in their space, which they would have been studying for ages, a while before they met us and tried to blow us up

How did the T-V war start up anyway?

If anyone tells me it's because we fired on them when they greeted us with their gunports open I'm gonna stab 'em in the eye with my modem!!

[StratComm]

From what I remember, it had something to do with Vasudan intolerance for Terran communication; (something about a mishandeling of "The Conversation" or the like) but I think it had more to do with not understanding one another than something as cliche as the gunports thing.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Goober5000
Here's what the FSRef Bible says...I did a "find in file" search on the word "ancient" in all the FS1 and FS2 mission and table data, plus the Ref Bible, and this was the most descriptive.

Ah.  Got a link to the ref bible, perchance?  I lost the copy I had.

[Kie99]

Originally posted by Cyker
How did the T-V war start up anyway?

If anyone tells me it's because we fired on them when they greeted us with their gunports open I'm gonna stab 'em in the eye with my modem!!

I'll shut up then, I'm rather attached to my eyes!

(cue wind)

[Taristin]

Wasn't the guns thing. A Terran fux0red up 'The Conversation.' Then Acted like it was no big deal, and caused great trouble.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Ah.  Got a link to the ref bible, perchance?  I lost the copy I had.

Voila...
http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/downloads/fsrefbible.zip

[aldo_14]

smashing, cheers