[Mobius]

I heard time ago(possibly two years),but just now I remember it,that this Magic:The Gathering card(I like it a lot,I have 2 of them in Italian of course)was producted until Hindu people protested.The production of this card ended and then restarted,I don't know why.
Using the name of Shiva for a monster was incredibly offensive in their opinion,but if you check that card better you see that in this case Shivan comes from Shiv,not Shiva.
It could be just a coincidence,but the production ended for many years.

In FreeSpace,Hindu names are used in pair to more evil ones(Tantalus,Lucifer)to identificate Shivan warships.Though many names used are refered to legendary demons,like Ravana,others,like Arjuna or Krishna,are refered to simple gods or divine warriors.It's more than offensive.

My question is this:what do you think that will happen if Hindu people try FreeSpace?There are consistent Hindu communities all around the world,even in civilizated countries.It is not to be excluded.

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[Dark Hunter]

"Lucifer" comes from Christianity, not Hinduism. It was Satan's name before he rebelled.

I doubt they'd make a big international scandal out of it at this point. The game's been "discontinued", at least officially. In fact, I doubt that no Hindu has played the game. I'm sure most realize that the names just sound really cool, and that's why FS uses them.

[CP5670]

eh, you have to be pretty thin skinned to be bothered by something like that. I was brought up as a Hindu (although I am basically an atheist) and I never cared. As mentioned earlier, these things make cool sounding names.

[Mars]

You know, I think many Christians and Jews would be offended by a similar Judeo-Christian naming scheme, as was pointed out before. I think most though would just find it weird.

[Goober5000]

It's quite possible that Hindu people complained.  The Shivan wing names came from Hindu mythology in FS1 but were just Zodiac constellations in FS2.

[Blaise Russel]

I can't imagine why. The Hindu names were far better than boring ol' Zodiac signs. Also, Arjuna and Krishna are more appropriate, considering FS1's explanation of the Shivans as part of the cosmic creation/preservation/destruction cycle.

[Mobius]

"Lucifer" comes from Christianity, not Hinduism. It was Satan's name before he rebelled.

I never said that:I said that evil names like Lucifer and Tantalus are ok for Cosmic Destroyers,but not "simple" god names,venerated by Hindu people(Shiva is the god of destruction,but remains a god and he/she is venerated for this reason).Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD,if the game was made in India?Indians would say "Jesus is cool for a wing,it referes to the regeneration and the preservation of the soul".

I can't imagine why. The Hindu names were far better than boring ol' Zodiac signs. Also, Arjuna and Krishna are more appropriate, considering FS1's explanation of the Shivans as part of the cosmic creation/preservation/destruction cycle.

We see that Shivans are the cosmic preservers only watching FS1 cutscenes.What I see actually are destroyers of civilizations,cold blooded killers who don't make difference from a civilian transport and a cruiser.

Hindu names for fighter/bomber wings are better,I know,but they have been changed by V(hey,maybe some Hindu protested and imposed a change?!?)

[karajorma]

Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD

Might get us some free publicity if we did have one

[Mobius]

Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD

Might get us some free publicity if we did have one

It's easy for you to say this,but it's a serious matter.
Try to imagine the pope,ex panzer cardinal,at Piazza San Pietro,accusing FS or a HLP campaign designer?

[aldo_14]

Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD

Might get us some free publicity if we did have one

It's easy for you to say this,but it's a serious matter.
Try to imagine the pope,ex panzer cardinal,at Piazza San Pietro,accusing FS or a HLP campaign designer?

****, that would be ace.

I'm off to write 666: The Freespace 2 Campaign.  anyone got a goat model?

(I think the motivation of the Shivans is sufficiently vague to be inoffensive to the majority of Hindus; especially given the final FS1 monologue, which places them in a very literal 'god' like state as preserving a sort of order and balance in the universe rather than being mindless xenophobes)

There are consistent Hindu communities all around the world,even in civilizated countries.It is not to be excluded.

That's more than a bit patronising, surely?  I'd expect there to be Hindu members on this board, for one thing.

[Mobius]

Did you like to see the "Destroy Jesus" directive on your HUD

Might get us some free publicity if we did have one

It's easy for you to say this,but it's a serious matter.
Try to imagine the pope,ex panzer cardinal,at Piazza San Pietro,accusing FS or a HLP campaign designer?

****, that would be ace.

I'm off to write 666: The Freespace 2 Campaign.  anyone got a goat model?

(I think the motivation of the Shivans is sufficiently vague to be inoffensive to the majority of Hindus; especially given the final FS1 monologue, which places them in a very literal 'god' like state as preserving a sort of order and balance in the universe rather than being mindless xenophobes)

There are consistent Hindu communities all around the world,even in civilizated countries.It is not to be excluded.

That's more than a bit patronising, surely?  I'd expect there to be Hindu members on this board, for one thing.

Interesting....
If there are Hindus here,well why don't they post here. At least they don't post from India,considering the ClusterMap. I'll wait here.
I said,only watching FS1 cutscenes that "preservers" thing comes in mind. In every other situation,every other mission,every other cutscene,I see only annihilators.

I wouldn't like seeing my gods' names being used to designate Destroyers(Destroyers,not Preservers).
The FreeSpace series isn't famous like Magic: The Gathering.After seeing Shivan Dragon,Hindus responded with lawyers and won. It wasn't a coincidence(Shiv+an,not Shiva+n).If they did this way for a card and a coincidence,what would they do with entire names used repeteately and to designate EVIL warships?One thing is having Hindu names only for Shivan warships and wings,one thing is making them work with Lucifer,Tantalus etc(the most evil names in FS1).

[Blaise Russel]

I wouldn't like seeing my gods' names being used to designate Destroyers(Destroyers,not Preservers).

But they are the Great Preservers, it's what the cutscenes say. Jesus wept!

Any Hindu who knows his religion would realise that the Shivans are actual representations of the god Shiva, who 'destroys' things so that new things might be created in their place. Understand that acts of destruction are not always reprehensible and immoral things, and stop being outraged on the behalf of other people in a manner which, quite frankly, smacks of imperialistic paternalism from the 19th century.

[IceFire]

Volition got lots of hate mail after FreeSpace 1 on the decision to name the Shivan fighter wings as they did.  Thus the reason why they were using Zodiac signs for FreeSpace 2.

I thought it was silly but I don't let many things easily insult me or I'd be insulted all the time.

[NGTM-1R]

It's not :V: that was a bunch of insenstive wankers, it was GTA Command for specifying that naming scheme. When in doubt blame good characterization.

[Blaise Russel]

Volition got lots of hate mail after FreeSpace 1 on the decision to name the Shivan fighter wings as they did.  Thus the reason why they were using Zodiac signs for FreeSpace 2.

I thought it was silly but I don't let many things easily insult me or I'd be insulted all the time.

I stand corrected.

How very, very rubbish.

[Mobius]

Volition got lots of hate mail after FreeSpace 1 on the decision to name the Shivan fighter wings as they did.  Thus the reason why they were using Zodiac signs for FreeSpace 2.

I thought it was silly but I don't let many things easily insult me or I'd be insulted all the time.

Then something has happened with V....

I wouldn't like seeing my gods' names being used to designate Destroyers(Destroyers,not Preservers).

But they are the Great Preservers, it's what the cutscenes say. Jesus wept!

Any Hindu who knows his religion would realise that the Shivans are actual representations of the god Shiva, who 'destroys' things so that new things might be created in their place. Understand that acts of destruction are not always reprehensible and immoral things, and stop being outraged on the behalf of other people in a manner which, quite frankly, smacks of imperialistic paternalism from the 19th century.

When I fight the Shivans I think,even if FS is a game,"God they're going to kill thousands of civilians!!!" and I terminate their bombers with Tempests.
They're the Preservers,ok,but also the Destroyers.You are confusing what the Shivan name suggests.

It's the third time I'm posting it.Shivan names are Hindu+evil.Asuras,Iblis,Ravana were all demons in Hindu legends,and the only Hindu names in FS2 if I remember well(and that's okay).
Something has really changed when V started making FS2...

[brozozo]

It's quite possible that Hindu people complained.  The Shivan wing names came from Hindu mythology in FS1 but were just Zodiac constellations in FS2.

That was one of my biggest disappointments with FS2. As silly as it sounds, the lack of the Hindu/Judeo-Christian wing names really took a lot of the atmosphere out of it for me.

Also, weren't there screenshots on the back of the box that had the old naming conventions depicted along with NTF wings designated as "Corsair" and such, or am I just making things up?

[Mobius]

Also, weren't there screenshots on the back of the box that had the old naming conventions depicted along with NTF wings designated as "Corsair" and such, or am I just making things up?

I know they're used to designate pirate crafts and nothing more.
The designers of the main campaign have changed many things during the development of the game(the Thebes was a destroyer,the Yakiba a cruiser,the Monitor an AWACS,the Nebiros a cruiser?!?ecc ecc),and these things came out with voice acting.
They prefered to use Zodiac names.

[BS403]

The shivans "preserve" by stopping powerful civilizations from destroying weak ones.

[Mobius]

The shivans "preserve" by stopping powerful civilizations from destroying weak ones.

But only when a population is reduced by 98% that "Preserver" thing comes in mind.

They're the bad guys in FreeSpace,bad guys.A thing Hindus shouldn't like.