[Taristin]

Im looking to posibly be building a new MicroATX AM2 rig in the next few months, and I have seen that there is quite a bit of new technology out there. Much more than I had anticipated there being. Now... I've narrowed my selections down quite a bit, but still have a few questions that I am not sure where to find the answers to. Mainly these two:

• AM2 Wattage Versus Performance
• Current Video Card Options

Ok, so. For the AM2's:
I'm looking to get an Athlon 64 X2 4200+. But, there seems to be two flavors, nm 89w and a 65w. What is the major differences, cons, pros, etc of the two? There is only a $5.00 price difference between them, and Im kinda leaning towards the lower wattage chip, but I dont understand what the difference is.


As fas as video cards go:
Im looking at either the nVidia 7600GS/GT, or the X1800GTO. There's about a 20.00 price difference between the two, and Im interested as to which is the best choice for getting the most out of it?


Any and all suggestions will be most appreciated. I'm set on getting a MicroATX machine, so please dont try to tell me reasons not to for that, just these are the only issues I am uncertain on. Thanks.

[Ulala]

Not waiting for DX10?

[Taristin]

No. Waiting for DX10, as everyone keeps saying, will be a waste of time. For all of my reasons, see any post by CP5670, as I agree totally with him. (atleast, thats who I believe was the one who I agreed with on the matter...)

[Ulala]

Mkay. Well, I have info/opinion on the processor, but as far as graphics cards, I tend to lean toward nVidia. I've had no problems with their cards. My girlfriend has an ATI and whatever program that was installed when I installed the latest drivers that uses the card seems to crash pretty often.  But it's not much, and certainly not enough to base a decision on. Sorry I can't be of more help.

[Ashrak]

the more wattage the more heat , its probly the cheaper cpu right?

[Scooby_Doo]

EECk have you seen the specs for Nvidia 8800 

[CP5670]

No. Waiting for DX10, as everyone keeps saying, will be a waste of time. For all of my reasons, see any post by CP5670, as I agree totally with him. (atleast, thats who I believe was the one who I agreed with on the matter...)

Wow, someone actually agrees with me on that. I definitely think that DX10 is not worth worrying about right now. The games that will actually use it more than just incidentally (i.e. to do stuff that can't also be done in DX9) are still a long ways off and by the time they come out, there will be better cards available. That being said, it may still be worth waiting for the initial DX10 cards, either for their strong DX9 performance or the fact that they will likely drive down the prices of current cards. The 8800 release date is now pretty much confirmed to be November 8.

Anyway, among your original choices, the X1800GTO is definitely faster but the price difference between those cards is more than $20, closer to $70 or so. The X1800GTO is a bad deal in any case, with the faster X1900GT available for the same price.

Also, I would suggest getting a Core 2 setup instead. There is at least one MATX C2 board available (Asus P5LD2-VM) and the E6300 is overall faster than the X2 4200 for the same price. (and produces less heat, which may be important in an MATX system)

[Scooby_Doo]

I'd hold off on the video card....if nothing else the X1900GT will go down in price once the 8800 comes out and clobbers it 

[IceFire]

We're just getting games that support SM3.0 in DX9c.  Springing for a DX10 card right now would probably be a bit silly as there will be no games for it, it'll be very expensive, and by the time that you do have a game for it...cheaper AND faster cards will be on the market.

[Taristin]

Also, I would suggest getting a Core 2 setup instead. There is at least one MATX C2 board available (Asus P5LD2-VM) and the E6300 is overall faster than the X2 4200 for the same price. (and produces less heat, which may be important in an MATX system)

Hm. I'm not gonna lie, I've got brand loyalty to AMD, and for one reason or another, buying Intel leaves me with an unsettling feeling. Is there really that great of a performance advantage for going Intel over AMD this round, or is it something that I'm likely not to even notice in anything but the most heavy load program?

As for vid cards; well, I'm not sure when I'll be building this rig, so it may just end up being late November, and looking at prices that have dropped significantly due to newer cards. Im not terribly worried about DX10, as I tend not to play the latest fad games, myself, but want something that could do it decently if I so desired...

[Ulala]

We're just getting games that support SM3.0 in DX9c.  Springing for a DX10 card right now would probably be a bit silly as there will be no games for it, it'll be very expensive, and by the time that you do have a game for it...cheaper AND faster cards will be on the market.

I'm forcing myself to wait for at least 6 months to see if DX10 is really as great as everyone thinks it should be. If it's not, the prices of other cards will be driven down substantially (I hope). And I'm hoping Supreme Commander and Crysis don't get delayed. 

[BlackDove]

I had a chat with a friend yesterday. He is a reviewer for one of the top magazines and they have most of the internal information regarding future releases and updates.

I'm not going to go into specifics of the reasons he gave me in the chat, because the chat was private, but in a nutshell it came down to the conclusion that with the advent of the R600's (look it up on wiki for basics), you'd have to be a bonified moron to actually buy any of the current graphic cards on the market, considering R600's are an impending release. It's a complete waste of money to go for X1950's or 7995's from nV.

As far as processors go, he also hinted me that this one wipes the floor with all AMD and P4's out there. Especially with the new Quad Core 2's that'll be released soon.

Just food for thought. It's going to cost me, but I'll probably be saving up money to upgrade to one of the R600's and the Core 2's, which'll hold me over for the next year or two.

[Scooby_Doo]

Also don't forget the G80 (aka 8800) will be release before the end of the year and it will have near or faster than the R600's, so any high end super expensive video card would be a very big waste of money right now. 

Ahh yes kentsfield, boy i'd love to have one of those, except I'd have to sell a kidney LOL

[Taristin]

Ok, well... Im not looking to have the OMGUBERGAMERRIG  but instead, a modest dual core system. That in mind, the video card will probably wait until the new stuff is out and I can see what I need. Sinec almost all microatx boards have built in video (mixed blessing, that) I can use that until the stuff is available...

[CP5670]

Hm. I'm not gonna lie, I've got brand loyalty to AMD, and for one reason or another, buying Intel leaves me with an unsettling feeling. Is there really that great of a performance advantage for going Intel over AMD this round, or is it something that I'm likely not to even notice in anything but the most heavy load program?

As for vid cards; well, I'm not sure when I'll be building this rig, so it may just end up being late November, and looking at prices that have dropped significantly due to newer cards. Im not terribly worried about DX10, as I tend not to play the latest fad games, myself, but want something that could do it decently if I so desired...

It depends. At stock speeds, the 6300 is faster than the 4200 but rarely by more than 10%, and they're pretty much dead equal in some tasks like 3D rendering. On the other hand, if you take overclocking into account (for both of them), the 6300 can get around a 90% boost on the right motherboard and will simply blow away any X2 at those speeds. This only applies to the 6300; at higher price points, the Core 2s have a larger performance lead over equivalently priced X2s, even at stock speeds.

If you're set on an AM2 processor though, get the cheaper 3800 instead (the difference between that and the 4200 is miniscule) and put the extra $30 or so towards the video card, which is what matters in games.

I'm not going to go into specifics of the reasons he gave me in the chat, because the chat was private, but in a nutshell it came down to the conclusion that with the advent of the R600's (look it up on wiki for basics), you'd have to be a bonified moron to actually buy any of the current graphic cards on the market, considering R600's are an impending release. It's a complete waste of money to go for X1950's or 7995's from nV.

As far as processors go, he also hinted me that this one wipes the floor with all AMD and P4's out there. Especially with the new Quad Core 2's that'll be released soon.

"Hinted?" This is well known. Core 2 has been out for a while now. Also, it's the 8800 line that is due for an impeding release, not the R600. R600 is still a few months away.

[IceFire]

I had a chat with a friend yesterday. He is a reviewer for one of the top magazines and they have most of the internal information regarding future releases and updates.

I'm not going to go into specifics of the reasons he gave me in the chat, because the chat was private, but in a nutshell it came down to the conclusion that with the advent of the R600's (look it up on wiki for basics), you'd have to be a bonified moron to actually buy any of the current graphic cards on the market, considering R600's are an impending release. It's a complete waste of money to go for X1950's or 7995's from nV.

As far as processors go, he also hinted me that this one wipes the floor with all AMD and P4's out there. Especially with the new Quad Core 2's that'll be released soon.

Just food for thought. It's going to cost me, but I'll probably be saving up money to upgrade to one of the R600's and the Core 2's, which'll hold me over for the next year or two.

Just questioning...would you be a moron to purchase the current cards now because the new card is better or because the old cards are going to sink in price when the new card arrives?  I'm probably going to be building a system in January.  I haven't decided what it is yet...but I'll probably get a current gen card because the new ones will be expensive.

[Scooby_Doo]

Do like what I'm going to do. Since I can't use my geforce 2 on my new mobo (apg/pci-e) I'm getting a cheap video card (definetely with PS support) to hold me over till the new stuff drops in price (or second gen comes around)

[Taristin]

All of the MicroATX mobo's Ive seen have integrated Geforce 6100 graphics. I have a feeling I'll be using that until the new cards are out, and I can get a powerful one at a decent price.

[BlackDove]

I had a chat with a friend yesterday. He is a reviewer for one of the top magazines and they have most of the internal information regarding future releases and updates.

I'm not going to go into specifics of the reasons he gave me in the chat, because the chat was private, but in a nutshell it came down to the conclusion that with the advent of the R600's (look it up on wiki for basics), you'd have to be a bonified moron to actually buy any of the current graphic cards on the market, considering R600's are an impending release. It's a complete waste of money to go for X1950's or 7995's from nV.

As far as processors go, he also hinted me that this one wipes the floor with all AMD and P4's out there. Especially with the new Quad Core 2's that'll be released soon.

Just food for thought. It's going to cost me, but I'll probably be saving up money to upgrade to one of the R600's and the Core 2's, which'll hold me over for the next year or two.

Just questioning...would you be a moron to purchase the current cards now because the new card is better or because the old cards are going to sink in price when the new card arrives?  I'm probably going to be building a system in January.  I haven't decided what it is yet...but I'll probably get a current gen card because the new ones will be expensive.

Both. That's why anyone who bought them now would be a moron. The price is going to drop on the "edgy" ones now, because they'll be like the current weakest ones when the new stuff hits with all the updates to various versions of shaders (we're talking big leaps), etc. It's mostly the jump in the generational graphic processing more than pricing. Yeah, you can buy the current expensive ones for a lesser price later, but it's still going to be an outdated card no matter how you cut it. Sure, it'll still play the new games on medium and high settings (latter being a maybe), but regarding the "how it should be rendered" I don't think you'll have that option, which is essentially what the new cards will provide.

I think most of us by now heard about the PhysX cards that you can shove in your regular PCI slot. http://www.ageia.com/

nV and ATI are NOT happy. With the new generation, general purpose computation on the GPU will probably be one of the focuses in order to drive that company off the market (make them obsolete). But you can take that as speculation for now.

[Ulala]

I'm planning to upgrade my system in 4-6 months. Hope all the questions will be answered by then.