[Mad Bomber]

In my own mods, the Prom-R, while still noticeably inferior to the Prom-S in nearly all respects, is not the worthless pile of junk that most people are familiar with. I've overhauled it quite blatantly, and am far more used to its utility in that setting than I am with it in canon.

But I'm guessing this poll pertains to canon stats. So, overall then, I prefer the Avenger, given its high hull damage and close-to-Subach-level shield damage.

So for me (with canon stats) it goes Avenger > Mekhu > Subach > Prom-R > ML-16.

Subach used to be #2, but MOTA forced me to become competent with the Mekhu, and I kinda learned to like it and respect its virtues. If any semblance of realism were implemented, and the Avenger became ammo-dependent (it is a modified 45mm autocannon after all) then the Mekhu HL-7 would come out on top.

[Jeff Vader]

The Avenger was good. The first thing that could actually do something to the Shivans. The Prometheus was also good, though fighting Dragons was still easier with the Avenger's faster refire rate.

[ShadowGorrath]

Guess what, I voted for the Prometheus R ( and I can tell a difference between the R and S , but still ).

[Mars]

Heh... the tech description for the Avenger was ripped directly from an article about Phalanax CIWS.

I don't believe a word of it.

[Tantalus53]

HL-7:

Its the first standard issue cannon you'd use for the entire game. gladly.

[blowfish]

Guess what, I voted for the Prometheus R ( and I can tell a difference between the R and S , but still ).

The R variant is the one you get near the beginning of the campaign.  It does less sustained damage than the subach, and is not superior in any other way.  The S variant you get later (IIRC in The Sicilian Defense).  It does some real damage and has some serious range.  It eats more energy than the Subach or the R though.  Bottom line is never take Prommy R.  Take Subachs instead.

[Woolie Wool]

HL-7:

Its the first standard issue cannon you'd use for the entire game. gladly.

The Avenger is a superior weapon to the HL-7 in pretty much every aspect.

[Colonol Dekker]

Start a secondary weapon poll i wan't to sing praises to the treb and harpoon

[Mad Bomber]

The Avenger is a superior weapon to the HL-7 in pretty much every aspect.

No, both HL-7s have superior antishield damage, fire rate, and energy consumption, tho these advantages aren't very big. The Avenger's real, substantive advantage over the HL-7s is antihull damage.

Heh... the tech description for the Avenger was ripped directly from an article about Phalanx CIWS. I don't believe a word of it.

FS is actually surprisingly internally consistent about what will and will not do damage to shielding and hull materials, with the main deviants from these conventions being the Prom-R and the EMP missile.

Given the Avenger's damage levels -- great against hull, reasonable against shields -- shells charged with radiation and energy (to the point that they glow yellow) seems like a pretty reasonable description, all things considered.

[Hellstryker]

Avenger because i was so happy to get in in FS I.. it made me feel like god, blowing up all the shivan fighters and all

[Zoltan]

FS is actually surprisingly internally consistent about what will and will not do damage to shielding and hull materials, with the main deviants from these conventions being the Prom-R and the EMP missile.

Given the Avenger's damage levels -- great against hull, reasonable against shields -- shells charged with radiation and energy (to the point that they glow yellow) seems like a pretty reasonable description, all things considered.

"A rapid-fire, computer-controlled radar and gun system - capable of firing at a rate of more than 4500 rounds per minute - used primarily for close-defense situations - uses closed-loop radar technology to locate, identify, and direct a stream of highly destructive 45mm projectiles to the target."

There doesn't seem to be many reasonable things in that description. I don't think that it was ever used in a close defense situation, there certainly wasn't a radar system, and it definitely wasn't computer controlled. 45mm projectiles??? There must be a bottomless bag of holding somewhere on my fighter... Then you have the totally ridiculous 4500 rounds per minute.

I think that these points were what Mars was referring to. And I agree, I think Volition found that description somewhere and thought it sounded pretty cool...

[Woolie Wool]

The Avenger is a superior weapon to the HL-7 in pretty much every aspect.

No, both HL-7s have superior antishield damage, fire rate, and energy consumption, tho these advantages aren't very big. The Avenger's real, substantive advantage over the HL-7s is antihull damage.
considered.

The HL-7's shield damage is only slightly better, and hull damage is much higher and generally more important than shield damage anyway.

[ShadowGorrath]

Guess what, I voted for the Prometheus R ( and I can tell a difference between the R and S , but still ).

The R variant is the one you get near the beginning of the campaign.  It does less sustained damage than the subach, and is not superior in any other way.  The S variant you get later (IIRC in The Sicilian Defense).  It does some real damage and has some serious range.  It eats more energy than the Subach or the R though.  Bottom line is never take Prommy R.  Take Subachs instead.

Don't need to tell me that, I'm not stupid, I know the difference between the R and S variants. I prefer Prometheus' because of how they look and etc.

I just got used to them

[Mars]

The Avenger is a superior weapon to the HL-7 in pretty much every aspect.

No, both HL-7s have superior antishield damage, fire rate, and energy consumption, tho these advantages aren't very big. The Avenger's real, substantive advantage over the HL-7s is antihull damage.
considered.

The HL-7's shield damage is only slightly better, and hull damage is much higher and generally more important than shield damage anyway.

If you look at the weapons comparison table, the Avenger and Subach are very close.

The Subach is a lot like an ML-16 modified so it has the SAME punch as the Avenger. It does the same  damage / second to pretty much everything, has a faster fire rate, but a slightly slower projectile speed.

If you look at single hit damage you might reach a different conclusion, but fire rate is more importiant to me personally than single hit anti hull damage

[Woolie Wool]

No, the Avenger does around 20% more damage than the Subach.

[Mars]

Name Subach Avenger

Refire .2 .25

Velocity 450mps 525mps

Armor D/S 67.5 80

Shield D/S 52.5 54.4

Subsys D/S 22.5 22.4

Energy 1 1.2

Only against armor, and consiering how many weapons are good against armor in FS2 that isn't importiant (If you're gonna take out a cruiser, Avengers or HL-7 are a bad idea on their own anyway. In Freespace 2 you have the excellent Tempests to fill in the gap, in FS1 all you have are furies.

[Mad Bomber]

All this discussion prompted me to write a new tech description for the Avenger, from a 2360s perspective.

The Avenger is at its heart a heavily modified autocannon, although the then-prototype weapon was rather hastily redesigned to be useful against shields when the Shivans showed up in 2335. Thus the small physical core of the shot is charged with high-energy waste particles from the fighter's reactor, to the point that the shots glow yellow in flight as they shed heat and hard radiation.
The Avenger began to be phased out in favor of the Subach HL-7 primarily due to corporate lobbying, since HL-7 units were more expensive to produce -- and thus far more profitable under government contracting practices -- than the relatively simple and low-cost Avengers. It is comparable in its usage profile to the Subach, albeit with a greater bias towards hull damage.

[GenericCorvette]

Heh... the tech description for the Avenger was ripped directly from an article about Phalanax CIWS.

I wonder what the Avenger's original name was.

[Droid803]

That proves it.
The Avenger tech description is a ripoff of the Phalanx CIWS.

[Tantalus53]

HL-7:

Its the first standard issue cannon you'd use for the entire game. gladly.

The Avenger is a superior weapon to the HL-7 in pretty much every aspect.

But the avenger is short-lived compared to the HL-7. Their Rate of fire alone is big with me, and the fractional energy drain also gives it points above the Avenger.

In my own experience, the Subach outlives the Avenger in campaign. i kicked it to the curb for Prometheus' like i did the ML-16. once the Prometheus comes in, its fairly useless, whereas the subach seems to be a good choice thought the game. Those times where theres that one dragon that you just cant hit on call to knock it out with the Kayser, Spray it with the Subach. guarantee the dragon will run out of shields and hull integrity before you run out of weapon energy.