[Nemesis6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo77w_71hA0

Watching this right now, and I thought you guys might be interested. Here's the backdrop - Uganda has/is introducing a bill which will outlaw homosexuality, and make it a crime punishable by death, and as it turns out, American fundagelicals had a major role in all of this.

[S-99]

GODDAMMIT!
My mom's a missionary, guess where she goes all the time (and where she went last night)? I'm pretty sure she and her group of people have had nothing to do with this, but i can only speculate knowing my mothers disagreement of gay people getting married. Then again she's not a spreader of hate mongering. You know, you're usual subtle and kept on the down low christian hate.

Why am i angry? I'm only pretty sure and not absolutely sure. I like to know what's up with things before i support them. For missionary related purposes, i extended the life of the ssd in her netbook, i made it faster, use less power, has all the updates, programs she wants and needs, the fact that she runs linux so she's even better off, and then i turned her netbook into a keyboard synthesizer. The keys on her netbook is like a piano now. Any sound affects she wants, playable like a normal piano (via doing the rows of keys on a piano on the netbook keyboard), and can plug into any speaker system

Why do people who believe in god need to hate on others? So, uganda is not like iran? Except this didn't come about from islam, but christianity. Send nukes to uganda (for them making stupid laws via retarded influence), but not until my mothers back?

[iamzack]

Muslim nation, Jewish nation, Christian nation... they're all the same. A religious majority is opposite freedom.

[Scotty]

Why do people who believe in god need to hate on others?

Speaking as one who believes in God, this blanket statement implication is false.

[Titan]

Why do people who believe in god need to hate on others?

Speaking as one who believes in God, this blanket statement is false.

I wouldn't say that I believe 100%, but even as a Catholic, I feel one must admit that strong religious beliefs have historically led to bad things eventually.

[Kszyhu]

I wouldn't say that I believe 100%, but even as a Catholic, I feel one must admit that strong religious beliefs have historically led to bad things eventually.

Fanaticism leads to bad things eventually. It doesn't matter if it is based on religion or not.

[iamzack]

But religion gets a pass as a perfectly normal thing to be fanatical about. That's what makes it dangerous.

[Goober5000]

Let's inject some facts into this discussion, rather than jump to unsupported conclusions.

First of all, homosexuality itself has been illegal in Uganda for more than 100 years, so this law is nothing new.  Secondly, this law is not a single-minded vendetta against homosexuals.  To put it in context, it comes shortly after Uganda passed laws against cannibalism and sex tourism.  Uganda is one of the top third-world countries targeted by sex tourism, so this comes as part of an overall campaign to stamp out the sex trade and reduce the epidemic of HIV and child slavery.

Thirdly, it is instructive to reference the law in question.  Look at page five: the death penalty is very specifically authorized for the cases of aggravated rape, specifically child rape, rape of the disabled, incest, and rape when the offender is HIV-positive.  And the death penalty is only applied upon conviction in a court of law.  So anyone speaking out specifically against the death penalty as applied under this law, is specifically defending a convicted pedophile rapist.  That's hard ground to defend.

I should also note that this law is widely supported by the Ugandan people.  So who are we to pass judgement on how they should or should not govern themselves?

[iamzack]

Well, while we're reading the law directly...

Offense of homosexuality:
(1) A person commits the offence of homosexuality if-
(a) he penetrates the anus or mouth of another person of the same sex with his penis or any other
sexual contraption;
(b) he or she uses any object or sexual contraption to penetrate or stimulate sexual organ of a
person of the same sex;
(e) he or she touches another person with the intention of committing the act of homosexuality.
(2) A person who commits an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction to
imprisonment for life.

That's page five, and that's imprisonment FOR LIFE for consensual sexual activity between adults.

Aggravated homosexuality:
(a) person against whom the offence is committed is below the age of 18 years;
(b) offender is a person living with HIV;
(c) offender is a parent or guardian of the person against whom the offence is committed;
(d) offender is a person in authority over the person against whom the offence is committed;
(e) victim of the offence is a person with disability;
(f) offender is a serial offender, or <<< I'm not clear as to whether this is just repeated consensual homosexual activity or if it is repeated "aggravated" homosexuality, but it looks like the former
(g) offender applies, administers or causes to be used by any man or woman any drug, matter or
thing with intent to stupefy overpower him or her so as to there by  enable any person to have
unlawful carnal connection with any person of the same sex,
(2) A person who commits the offence of aggravated homosexuality shall be liable on conviction
to suffer death.


Page six...

(1) A person who attempts to commit the offence of homosexuality (thats consensual sexual activity between two adults) commits a felony and is liable on conviction to imprisonment seven years.

I should also note that this law is widely supported by the Ugandan people.  So who are we to pass judgement on how they should or should not govern themselves?

Who are we to try to stop FGM elsewhere in Africa? Who are we to stop another country from legalizing slavery? Shut the **** up, majority approval doesn't make something right.

[BloodEagle]

GODDAMMIT!

I see what you did there. 

Why do people who believe in god need to hate on others?

Why do people who don't, feel the need to demonize those who do?

The answer: People are bastards.  It doesn't matter if they believe in God or not.  They're still bastards.

Shut the **** up, majority approval doesn't make something right.

Wait.... Aren't you in the majority, on this?

And telling someone who offers an opposing view from yours to "Shut [...] up" doesn't make your argument correct.  In point of fact, it makes you look like a complete asshat.

Just saiyajin.

[iamzack]

Shut the **** up, majority approval doesn't make something right.

Wait.... Aren't you in the majority, on this?

And telling someone who offers an opposing view from yours to "Shut [...] up" doesn't make your argument correct.  In point of fact, it makes you look like a complete asshat.

Just saiyajin.

Depends what you're talking about. Am I in the majority in my city? Maybe slightly. Am I in the majority in my state? Probably not. Am I in the majority in the world? Certainly not.

And I don't care. For the most part, there's no point in reasoning with religious people. They've already deicded reason isn't important to them.

[el_magnifico]

But religion gets a pass as a perfectly normal thing to be fanatical about. That's what makes it dangerous.

Yes. Just like atheism. A fundamentalist is always a fundamentalist. Yes, there are fundamentalist atheist too. And they usually think it's alright in their part.

To put it in context, it comes shortly after Uganda passed laws against cannibalism and sex tourism.  Uganda is one of the top third-world countries targeted by sex tourism, so this comes as part of an overall campaign to stamp out the sex trade and reduce the epidemic of HIV and child slavery.

It's been decades since the last time HIV was confined to a small portion of the population with certain sexual tendencies. Outlawing homosexuality isn't going to help at all, as far as I can see. Nor is (nor was) such a measure acceptable.
I admit I haven't read the law, but if it indeed tries to penalize homosexuality... well... it will be futile at best.

NOTE: Aw, crap. Now I'm going to get flamed by both sides of the discussion.


And you guys keep replying while I'm redacting!

Why do people who believe in god need to hate on others?

Why do people who don't, feel the need to demonize those who do?

The answer: People are bastards.  It doesn't matter if they believe in God or not.  They're still bastards.

What he said. Though, to be fair, it's not every atheist. Just the intolerant and immature ones. Because they're intolerant and immature... like every other fundamentalist! ^^

And I don't care. For the most part, there's no point in reasoning with religious people. They've already deicded reason isn't important to them.

Up to this point, I used to believe you were a reasonable person yourself, but now I see you're full of hatred and intolerance. Some day, you will realize the absurdity and unnecessary hostility of such comments and baseless generalizations, just like I did. I hope you do, because you have a lot of potential to waste it.

[iamzack]

fundamentalist atheist

lol

Up to this point, I used to believe you were a reasonable person yourself, but now I see you're full of hatred and intolerance. Some day, you will realize the absurdity and unnecessary hostility of such comments and baseless generalizations, just like I did. I hope you do, because you have a lot of potential to waste it.

Yep, I'm intolerant and full of hatred because I make fun of people who believe consensual sexual activity between two informed adults is a sin and deserving of death or life imprisonment just because their genitals are too similar.

[el_magnifico]

Up to this point, I used to believe you were a reasonable person yourself, but now I see you're full of hatred and intolerance. Some day, you will realize the absurdity and unnecessary hostility of such comments and baseless generalizations, just like I did. I hope you do, because you have a lot of potential to waste it.

Yep, I'm intolerant and full of hatred because I make fun of people who believe consensual sexual activity between two informed adults is a sin and deserving of death or life imprisonment just because their genitals are too similar.

No, you're intolerant and full of hatred because you think just because someone believes there's a god they also believe homosexuality is a crime.

[Nuke]

i think of it this way, gay people aren't going anywhere, they have always existed, they will in all likelihood continue to exist. if they found a way to make people stop being gay, then people who are gay will reject it. full on eugenics would most likely fail at eradicating it. therefore its pointless to do anything about it (regardless of your opinion on gays). enforcing anti-gay laws takes resources away from enforcing laws against real sexual predators such as rapists and child molesters (same can be said for anti drug laws, taking resources away from catching more serious offenders).

[el_magnifico]

i think of it this way, gay people aren't going anywhere, they have always existed, they will in all likelihood continue to exist. if they found a way to make people stop being gay, then people who are gay will reject it. full on eugenics would most likely fail at eradicating it. therefore its pointless to do anything about it (regardless of your opinion on gays). enforcing anti-gay laws takes resources away from enforcing laws against real sexual predators such as rapists and child molesters

As far as I know, some theories say that there's even a biological component on homosexuality, so good luck trying to "cure" it.

Though honestly, biological or not, it's their right. And seriously, states are supposed to be doing more useful things with their (ours) money than defining what sexual activities are correct, moral, or lawful between consenting adults.

[iamzack]

Up to this point, I used to believe you were a reasonable person yourself, but now I see you're full of hatred and intolerance. Some day, you will realize the absurdity and unnecessary hostility of such comments and baseless generalizations, just like I did. I hope you do, because you have a lot of potential to waste it.

Yep, I'm intolerant and full of hatred because I make fun of people who believe consensual sexual activity between two informed adults is a sin and deserving of death or life imprisonment just because their genitals are too similar.

No, you're intolerant and full of hatred because you think just because someone believes there's a god they also believe homosexuality is a crime.

Well, I didn't write their holy book.

[BloodEagle]

Up to this point, I used to believe you were a reasonable person yourself, but now I see you're full of hatred and intolerance. Some day, you will realize the absurdity and unnecessary hostility of such comments and baseless generalizations, just like I did. I hope you do, because you have a lot of potential to waste it.

Yep, I'm intolerant and full of hatred because I make fun of people who believe consensual sexual activity between two informed adults is a sin and deserving of death or life imprisonment just because their genitals are too similar.

No, you're intolerant and full of hatred because you think just because someone believes there's a god they also believe homosexuality is a crime.

Well, I didn't write their holy book.

*facepalm*

[el_magnifico]

Up to this point, I used to believe you were a reasonable person yourself, but now I see you're full of hatred and intolerance. Some day, you will realize the absurdity and unnecessary hostility of such comments and baseless generalizations, just like I did. I hope you do, because you have a lot of potential to waste it.

Yep, I'm intolerant and full of hatred because I make fun of people who believe consensual sexual activity between two informed adults is a sin and deserving of death or life imprisonment just because their genitals are too similar.

No, you're intolerant and full of hatred because you think just because someone believes there's a god they also believe homosexuality is a crime.

Well, I didn't write their holy book.

You aren't grasping it. Only fundamentalists believe in every word out of a book and every word of some guy's interpretation of it, while denying every evidence presented to them, and refusing to question anything some organization does.

Churches, priests, they are all humans or are formed by humans. Humans who make mistakes and commit sins (and sometimes even crimes).
The holy books? They have been translated so many times that taking them by word is foolish. In fact, I don't think you were supposed to take them by word even in their original place and time.
Am I going to hell for this way of believing? Well, I don't know. I know I'm a terrible person, with a lot of mistakes in my past to regret, so probably I'm going to hell anyway. But if I can believe in something that makes me feel better and helps me be a better person, embracing the good, humanitarian parts, and rejecting the rest, you can be damn sure I will. Maybe I'm right and they are wrong. Who knows? I'll have to wait until the end to see.

[iamzack]

There is no hell. That's why we invented jail.