Author Topic: A substitute for subspace  (Read 4735 times)

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Offline LoneKnight

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A substitute for subspace
I've been working on a campaign that takes place prior to the invention of subspace...everything takes place in the Sol system. Fighters are deployed by Capships, ALT-J sets your fighter to AI and has it begin to travel to the nearest allied hanger bay. Most missions begin with capships already in the area.

For the few missions where capships arrive, I wanted them to arrive using some high-powered engine thrusters. I've been experimenting with set-object-speed-x,y,z and it doesn't seem to work...as far as I can tell. In a test with a Hades, the ship speed goes into negative, but doesn't actually change when I tell it to increase its speed by 1000. Is there any effective way of getting this to work where a ship rapidly increases its speed? I fear that if I simply edit the ship's speed table, it will effect it at all times, not just for when I'm telling it to go to these top speeds.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: A substitute for subspace
HYPERSPACE warpin type.

beware of bugs

And you can use set-object-speed to make things go reaaaally fast. However, you must turn on "use newtonian dampening" in AI profiles, which rather drastically changes flight characteristics of fighters (they slow down a lot when turning)

Alternatively, you can always dock a "booster module" ship with a really high top speed and an appropriate acceleration rate to your normal ship, and order the normal ship to drag the booster around, until you want to have it warp out, then give orders to the booster pod, and it will accelerate and fly away. Would also work for flying in (though it'd be a lot trickier to set up)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 12:43:16 pm by Droid803 »
(´・ω・`)
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
HYPERSPACE warpin type.

beware of bugs

What do you mean?

And you can use set-object-speed to make things go reaaaally fast. However, you must turn on "use newtonian dampening" in AI profiles, which rather drastically changes flight characteristics of fighters (they slow down a lot when turning)

Hmm...I'll experiment iwth the newtonian dampening. That may make things interesting. Especially if it's more of an origins story, it could explain how ships fly differently in early space-flight.

Alternatively, you can always dock a "booster module" ship with a really high top speed and an appropriate acceleration rate to your normal ship, and order the normal ship to drag the booster around, until you want to have it warp out, then give orders to the booster pod, and it will accelerate and fly away. Would also work for flying in (though it'd be a lot trickier to set up)

Won't that mean that my ship will always display that I'm docked with something? I can see that working, probably rather well with the exception of that one issue.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: A substitute for subspace
Well, HYPERSPACE is kinda the built-in way of doing things. Behaves like Star Wars hyperspace jumps. Has some issues since the engine counts stuff as "arrived" the moment they appear (out at basically infinity) and hurtle towards the actual playing field. Causes issues with AI pathfinding if they have any goals assigned to them during that time, and if there's something "in the way", it'll hit it = BOOM dead ship = no more sound for the rest of the mission.

Perfectly usable if you're careful though.

And yeah, it'll always say that its docked with something, unless you disable that HUD gauge or something (but then nothing will show stuff being docked). You could always play that off as primitive HUD though, like how TVWP Unification War didn't even give you targeting computers until halfway through the first act, etc.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
So correct me if I'm wrong, but set-object-speed doesn't work unless "use newtonian dampening" is turned on?
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Offline Droid803

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Re: A substitute for subspace
yep.
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Offline Spoon

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Re: A substitute for subspace
So correct me if I'm wrong, but set-object-speed doesn't work unless "use newtonian dampening" is turned on?
You are wrong.
It works but you need to everytime it.
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
Errr...got that working. Sort of. Despite setting the z axis (which is the forward vector for ships), my ships shoot to the x at the designated speed rate. Any idea why?
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Offline Droid803

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Re: A substitute for subspace
is your ship rotated?
i think theres a thing that lets you set it with relation to your ship's facing rather than globally.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
It is not rotated, they are in the default placement. I tested this on both an AI and on Alpha 1.

EDIT: Where the hell can I find AI_profiles.tbl??? It's not in root...?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 10:15:56 pm by LoneKnight »
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Offline The E

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Re: A substitute for subspace
You need to create it yourself, because it's a pure SCP addition and wasn't in retail.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
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There must be changes, miss to feel strong
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
is your ship rotated?
i think theres a thing that lets you set it with relation to your ship's facing rather than globally.

There is. It's Option 3 of set-object-speed, but FRED won't allow me to add that field. According to the description, it is set to false by default. How do I change it? Add Data won't work, and I tried adding a "True" field via notepad and that threw up an error.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 11:14:07 am by LoneKnight »
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: A substitute for subspace
Use Add Operator.

 

Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
Okay. *pant* Almost got this working.

Events in FRED are correct, since I set the relativity to True. I know it's working because the ships aren't operating due to the FS2 RETAIL ai profile being active.
I created a new Ai_profiles.tbl with newtonian physics turned on. This is how it looks:

Code: [Select]
#AI Profiles

$Default Profile:                              BURNING HEAVEN

$Profile Name:                                 BURNING HEAVEN

$Player Afterburner Recharge Scale:            5,    3,    2,    1.5,  1
$Max Beam Friendly Fire Damage:                0,    5,    10,   20,   30
$Player Countermeasure Life Scale:             3,    2,    1.5,  1.25, 1
$AI Countermeasure Firing Chance:              0.2,  0.3,  0.5,  0.9,  1.1
$AI In Range Time:                             2,    1.4,  0.75, 0,    -1
$AI Always Links Ammo Weapons:                 95,   80,   60,   40,   20
$AI Maybe Links Ammo Weapons:                  90,   60,   40,   20,   10
$AI Always Links Energy Weapons:               100,  80,   60,   40,   20
$AI Maybe Links Energy Weapons:                90,   60,   40,   20,   10
$Max Missles Locked on Player:                 2,    3,    4,    7,    99
$Max Player Attackers:                         2,    3,    4,    5,    99
$Max Incoming Asteroids:                       3,    4,    5,    7,    10
$Player Damage Factor:                         0.25, 0.5,  0.65, 0.85, 1
$Player Subsys Damage Factor:                  0.2,  0.4,  0.6,  0.8,  1
$Predict Position Delay:                       2,    1.5,  1.33, 0.5,  0
$AI Shield Manage Delay:                       5,    4,    2.5,  1.2,  0.1
$Friendly AI Fire Delay Scale:                 2,    1.4,  1.25, 1.1,  1
$Hostile AI Fire Delay Scale:                  4,    2.5,  1.75, 1.25, 1
$AI Turn Time Scale:                           3,    2.2,  1.6,  1.3,  1
$Player Shield Recharge Scale:                 4,    2,    1.5,  1.25, 1
$Player Weapon Recharge Scale:                 10,   4,    2.5,  2,    1.5
$Max Turret Target Ownage:                     3,    4,    7,    12,   19
$Max Turret Player Ownage:                     3,    4,    7,    12,   19
$Percentage Required For Kill Scale:           0.30, 0.30, 0.30, 0.30, 0.30
$Percentage Required For Assist Scale:         0.15, 0.15, 0.15, 0.15, 0.15
$Percentage Awarded For Capship Assist:        0.5,  0.5,  0.5,  0.5,  0.5
$Repair Penalty:                               10,   20,   35,   50,   60
$Delay Before Allowing Bombs to Be Shot Down:  1.5,  1.5,  1.5,  1.5,  1.5

$big ships can attack beam turrets on untargeted ships:  NO
$smart primary weapon selection:                         NO
$smart secondary weapon selection:                       NO
$smart shield management:                                NO
$smart afterburner management:                           NO
$allow rapid secondary dumbfire:                         NO
$huge turret weapons ignore bombs:                       NO
$don't insert random turret fire delay:                  NO
$hack improve non-homing swarm turret fire accuracy:     NO
$shockwaves damage small ship subsystems:                NO
$navigation subsystem governs warpout capability:        NO
$ignore lower bound for minimum speed of docked ship:    NO
$disable linked fire penalty:                            NO
$disable weapon damage scaling:                          NO
$use additive weapon velocity:                           NO
$use newtonian dampening:                                YES
$include beams for kills and assists:                    NO
$score kills based on damage caused:                     NO
$score assists based on damage caused:                   NO
$allow event and goal scoring in multiplayer:            NO
$fix linked primary weapon decision bug:                 NO
$prevent turrets targeting too distant bombs:            NO
$smart subsystem targeting for turrets:                  NO
$fix heat seekers homing on stealth ships bug:           NO
$multi allow empty primaries:                            NO
$multi allow empty secondaries:                          NO
$allow turrets target weapons freely:                    NO
$use only single fov for turrets:                        NO
$allow vertical dodge:                                   NO
$fix AI class bug:                                       NO
#End

EDIT: Just found the Profiles tab in Mission Specs.

It works! Woot! Thanks so much for the help along the way!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 11:50:23 am by LoneKnight »
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Re: A substitute for subspace
These threads are almost better than screenshots. I'm really curious to play this mod.
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
Okay, so it seems that using this turns off collisions...or maybe objects are moving too fast for collision detection to work. Any way around this?
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Offline Droid803

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Re: A substitute for subspace
how fast are they going.
i've had collisions still working with ships with their speed set to 4000m/s
(´・ω・`)
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: A substitute for subspace
Tried colliding a Sath and the a Ulysses (Alpha 1), both travelling at a speed of 2000. Player goes right through the Sathanas. Same result with Player travelling at 0 and Sathanas at 2000 and vice versa.

When the Sathanas and Player aren't using set-object-speed, its collison is on. Something is turning it off. I tried using different ships to collide, such as the Hecate and Colossus, no luck.

Newtonian Physics are on, if it makes any differences.

I got a fake collison working with a SEXP of if player is less than 1000 meters from the Sath, it kills the Player. It's a ****ty workaround, but I'd like to find actual collisions.
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Offline jr2

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Re: A substitute for subspace
Well, HYPERSPACE is kinda the built-in way of doing things. Behaves like Star Wars hyperspace jumps. Has some issues since the engine counts stuff as "arrived" the moment they appear (out at basically infinity) and hurtle towards the actual playing field. Causes issues with AI pathfinding if they have any goals assigned to them during that time, and if there's something "in the way", it'll hit it = BOOM dead ship = no more sound for the rest of the mission.

Perfectly usable if you're careful though.



AI playdead and ship invulnerable tags from ship creation to ~1second after do the trick?

 

Offline Nohiki

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Re: A substitute for subspace
158th ITNE's Kievs had something boosting them to speed. I thought it was afterburner but i don't remember anymore xD It might be worth checking.