Author Topic: GTF Loki Stealthiness  (Read 6060 times)

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Offline FlamingCobra

  • An Experiment In Weaponised Annoyance
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GTF Loki Stealthiness
So did only the Terrans discover the flaw in the Loki's design, nullifying its stealth capabilities, or did the Shivans discover it too?

 

Offline The E

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Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
Go and ask your nearest shivan representative.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
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Offline Deadly in a Shadow

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Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
Never forget the vasudans.
"Ka-BOOOOOOOOM!!!!"
"Uh, Sir we can hear the explosion."
"No you can't, there is no air in space. Sound can't travel through a vacuum!"

 

Offline Qent

  • 29
Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
Look for any retail mission in which you can fly a Loki against Shivans and check if they spot you.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
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Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
You don't even know if Shivans need targeting at all.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
Why wouldn't they use computerized targeting, aiming assist, etc., especially when they have missiles that are detected by Terran lock indicators the same way Terran and Vasudan missiles are even before the Shivan ships themselves can be targeted, indicating that the basic technology is similar?
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Offline Qent

  • 29
Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
That and Pegasus/Ptah stealth works the same against Terrans/Vasudans and Shivans.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
Why wouldn't they use computerized targeting, aiming assist, etc., especially when they have missiles that are detected by Terran lock indicators the same way Terran and Vasudan missiles are even before the Shivan ships themselves can be targeted, indicating that the basic technology is similar?
I fail to see how the way our own systems are able to target missiles is any indication on the way a completely different alien specie needs or not to target ships.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
That and Pegasus/Ptah stealth works the same against Terrans/Vasudans and Shivans.

Actually, in the one mission that its used the Ptah is less effective against Shivans since the Sathanas has an AWACs flag...
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline FlamingCobra

  • An Experiment In Weaponised Annoyance
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Re: GTF Loki Stealthiness
Since when is the Sathanas an AWACS?

And I'm starting to think the answer is yes because if the stealth on the Loki still worked against Shivans, why would the GTVA develop a new stealth/recon fighter (aka the Pegasus and Ptah)

  

Offline Droid803

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It has an awacs flag on one of its subsystems.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline deathfun

  • 210
  • Hey man. Peace. *Car hits them* Frakking hippies
In the original Silent Threat campaign, it took very little amount of time before the Stealthiness of the Loki was thwarted (if I recall correctly). Judging by that, and the fact the Shivans more than likely engaged the GTI party using them before, they more than likely followed suit in trying to figure it out. Either that, or their targeting system was far more advanced and could detect them either way
"No"

 
I'm envisioning a Shivan chortling at the Terrans' feeble attempt at hiding from them.

 

Offline jr2

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I'm envisioning a Shivan chortling at the Terrans' feeble attempt at hiding from them.

^  This  ^

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
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I fail to see how the way our own systems are able to target missiles is any indication on the way a completely different alien specie needs or not to target ships.

You just completely missed the point, try learning how a lock-threat system works and notice yours does before anybody even gave the Shivans a name, then come back.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Again, you don't give any indication that the way OUR technology works is in any way related to the way a completely alien technology works.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Again, you don't give any indication that the way OUR technology works is in any way related to the way a completely alien technology works.

Learn how a lock-threat indicator works. Learn how a lock-threat indicator works. LEARN HOW A LOCK-THREAT INDICATOR WORKS.

I can only say it so many ways.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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For anyone not inclined or willing to do the research (and shame on you for so being, dammit) I shall explain.

The first time you meet Shivans, your fighter is able to detect the fact their fighters are seeking or have missile lock on you. It is also able to detect the fact one of their missiles has lost this lock. This means they must be using similiar systems to you, the Vasudans, or both. Why?

Lock-threat indicators, how do they ****ing work?

Radars are really awesome things. So are ladars or whatever doohicky they're using in FS. However there are problems. Your radar is scanning a 360 bubble around your fighter out to a very long range. This slows it down enough that providing accurate targeting information on a single object at long ranges (or even short ones) is troublesome. So you either have a special radar mode or a secondary system to focus on one target to get accurate targeting data; that's the one you have locked and you cycle through them with T.

Your missiles are being passed this data and using it to adjust their own homing systems and track the target. That's missile lock time. This may also require a special mode or another secondary system, possibly the missile's own sensors.

These modes and secondary systems are detectable to other ships. If you're in a flight of twenty closely spaced ships and a Shivan locks you from 5 kilometers away, your ship knows that you're the one actually being targeted by detecting the fact you're not being hit with the primary mode/system, but with the secondary. Your fighter can tell that enemy one is going for or has missile lock by the same means. It can tell when a missile has lost you as a target because its active homing is no longer painting your hull with whatever sensor waves it uses. (Which makes MX-series locks being known evaded kind of weird but it's what we're stuck with. Maybe they meant infrared laser homing; alternately the missile is being passed control signals and that's really the Azimuth Sector light equivalent.)

The fact your fighter can detect this before the Shivans have had their electronics gear stolen in later missions means that they have to be using similar systems to either your fighter or your (known) enemies' fighters for your fighter to even recognize their targeting, missile lock, and missile homing modes.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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So you're basing a whole rant on a minute point of gameplay ? Well done.

It's not like if fluff and gameplay were already contradicting in multiple places, is it ?
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
So you're basing a whole rant on a minute point of gameplay ? Well done.

It's not like if fluff and gameplay were already contradicting in multiple places, is it ?

It would behoove you to take correction gracefully unless you have something worthwhile and reasoned to contribute to the discussion.

Alternately, go crack open the game code and tell me why that light on my HUD flashes. Go on, I'll wait.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story