[Hades]

Yeah, Mushishi is a masterpiece.

Also y'all need better suggestions.  Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Wolf's Rain, Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex, Serial Experiments Lain, I could keep going for a long time.

Cowboy bebop is a decent show but it really isn't all that good. 99% of the time when it gets recommended as a 'omgbbqmustwatch' its done by americans who saw it on tv back in the day (dubbed ofcourse) and it was 'their first anime'. True story 

You're wrong. Most people who like it like it because it tends to stay away from typical anime tropes, which are 95% awful.

[Colonol Dekker]

Venus wars is cheese.
Transformers 80's movie is the best anime ever made.

[LHN91]

I feel if the show was just about Oreki being lazy 24/7, the show would be around 68.3% better 

That's one pretty accurate estimate


Well, if we're going for the classics, then: SDF Macross (and it's follow ups), Gundams.... HAH, actually I think I could even recommend The Legend of Galactic Heroes, but that's some serious space opera.

I always hesitate to recommend Legend of the Galactic Heroes, because despite the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed it and re-watch it pretty regularly, its a serious investment in time, and moves too slowly for a lot of people.

[FireSpawn]

Kill La Kill makes my brain feel like it's oozing out of my eye socket....And I cant tell if it's a bad thing or not.

[The E]

You're wrong. Most people who like it like it because it tends to stay away from typical anime tropes, which are 95% awful.

Just a friendly reminder: This is so very not the topic for discussing what you do not like about Anime. Also, let's not get into the annoying habit of making absolute statements like that about things as subjective as this, okay?

[Lorric]

I feel if the show was just about Oreki being lazy 24/7, the show would be around 68.3% better 

That's one pretty accurate estimate


Well, if we're going for the classics, then: SDF Macross (and it's follow ups), Gundams.... HAH, actually I think I could even recommend The Legend of Galactic Heroes, but that's some serious space opera.

I always hesitate to recommend Legend of the Galactic Heroes, because despite the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed it and re-watch it pretty regularly, its a serious investment in time, and moves too slowly for a lot of people.

Yes I've seen the first season of it, and it's light on action and moves at a glacial pace. But I still enjoyed it.

[Rodo]

Black lagoon is good as well, really enjoyed it when I saw it.
I so miss a series like Slam Dunk, I'd love to see something like that done again.

On topic about series, I was thinking about starting to watch Game of Thrones cause apparently I'm a dork for not watching it.
So yeah, I think I'll be using some of my free time to watch it, along with Nisekoi and Mushishi. There seems to be nothing else that interesting apart from that.

Oh and fredding from time to time as well

[ssmit132]

Transformers 80's movie is the best anime ever made.

I honestly thought that the cartoon Transformers movie wasn't that good when I watched it last year.

Spoiler:

Except for Optimus Prime's death scene. That was pretty well done.

[Mongoose]

Kill La Kill makes my brain feel like it's oozing out of my eye socket....And I cant tell if it's a bad thing or not.

A very good thing.

Yeah, Mushishi is a masterpiece.

Also y'all need better suggestions.  Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Wolf's Rain, Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex, Serial Experiments Lain, I could keep going for a long time.

Cowboy bebop is a decent show but it really isn't all that good. 99% of the time when it gets recommended as a 'omgbbqmustwatch' its done by americans who saw it on tv back in the day (dubbed ofcourse) and it was 'their first anime'. True story 
Trigun falls sort of in the same category, it really isn't anything special imho. (Not sayin that its bad or anything either)
Wolf's rain I dropped out of boredom after 7-8 episodes. Horrible emo show
GitS is pretty good tho.
Also why aren't Outlaw star and Black lagoon in this list of yours? huh? whats your excuse?
[/opinions]

I'm only watching Black Lagoon for the first time right now (soooo many bleeps on Toonami, fun times), and while I did enjoy Outlaw Star well enough when finally seeing it a couple of years ago, it didn't quite resonate with me the same way.  But the reason that so many people fell in love with Bebop is that, from a directorial and genre standpoint, it really is that good.  Shinichiro Watanabe is an absolute master of bringing a flat-out cinematic feeling to a scene, with an actual sense of "camera" placement and motion, and that to me is one of the main factors that makes Bebop such a joy to watch.

And srsly man, unless you're currently in the year 2003 and/or no older than 14, "emo" should not be in your vocabulary.

Mostly though, when I see whole lists full of the otaku-pandering stuff that's dominated the late night scene in Japan over the past several years, I just start to get all twitchy.  Anime's capable of so much more than that as a genre: we need more Masaaki Yuasa, and less moeblob.

(But man, if we want to talk about bad shows...MD Geist should be considered a war crime.)

[Dark Hunter]

Transformers 80's movie is the best anime ever made.

I honestly thought that the cartoon Transformers movie wasn't that good when I watched it last year.

Friend of mine made me watch it some time ago. I have never been big into the Transformers franchise, so I have not seen any of the series that preceded the movie.

I found it to be cliched and, well, kind of ridiculous. A couple of good moments but for the most part not really all that interesting.

Nostalgia goggles are apparently heavily rose-tinted.

[StarSlayer]

CRASHING THROUGH THE SKY COMES A FEARFUL CRY

COBRA! COBRA!

[Colonol Dekker]

I've not heard that for well over twoddecades and it's already making me smile knowing that starscream was moonlighting.
Rose tinted ftw.

[Spoon]

I'm only watching Black Lagoon for the first time right now (soooo many bleeps on Toonami, fun times), and while I did enjoy Outlaw Star well enough when finally seeing it a couple of years ago, it didn't quite resonate with me the same way.  But the reason that so many people fell in love with Bebop is that, from a directorial and genre standpoint, it really is that good.  Shinichiro Watanabe is an absolute master of bringing a flat-out cinematic feeling to a scene, with an actual sense of "camera" placement and motion, and that to me is one of the main factors that makes Bebop such a joy to watch.

And srsly man, unless you're currently in the year 2003 and/or no older than 14, "emo" should not be in your vocabulary.

Mostly though, when I see whole lists full of the otaku-pandering stuff that's dominated the late night scene in Japan over the past several years, I just start to get all twitchy.  Anime's capable of so much more than that as a genre: we need more Masaaki Yuasa, and less moeblob.

(But man, if we want to talk about bad shows...MD Geist should be considered a war crime.)

Why would you subject yourself to censorship willingly? Doesn't exactly sound like you're watching black lagoon the way its meant to be watched.

My personal gripe about bebop is that you can pretty much watch the episodes in any order and not a lot would change. I'm personally more of a fan of shows that tell an ungoing story rather than being episodic in nature. Bebop doesn't really have much of an overarching storyline going. It does do a lot of things really well, but it never caught me by the balls like some other shows have.

If you enjoyed Trigun, you'd probably like GunXsword too btw. (If you havent seen it already)

Call it "emo" or "edgy". You gotta agree with me that wolf's rain is not trying to set a very happy and not depressing atmosphere (The fact that I got the show recommended to me by a friend who was heavily in a gothic phase probably didn't help)

Oh and it's not exactly like moe is a recent thing. Its hardly like older anime were all masterpieces and devoid of fanservice. And there have been a plentiful amount of good recent shows that I could go on about. Anime is still plenty diverse to this day imho. Just don't stare yourself blind on the things you don't like.

Transformers 80's movie is the best anime ever made.

I honestly thought that the cartoon Transformers movie wasn't that good when I watched it last year.

Friend of mine made me watch it some time ago. I have never been big into the Transformers franchise, so I have not seen any of the series that preceded the movie.

I found it to be cliched and, well, kind of ridiculous. A couple of good moments but for the most part not really all that interesting.

Nostalgia goggles are apparently heavily rose-tinted.

I have the heaviest rose-tinted nostalgia goggles for Transformers G1. But even that cannot make me deny that it really IS kinda bad in a lot of ways. (Holy **** animation errors all over) I still love it, but I cannot disagree with the above statements.

I feel if the show was just about Oreki being lazy 24/7, the show would be around 68.3% better 

That's one pretty accurate estimate


Well, if we're going for the classics, then: SDF Macross (and it's follow ups), Gundams.... HAH, actually I think I could even recommend The Legend of Galactic Heroes, but that's some serious space opera.

I always hesitate to recommend Legend of the Galactic Heroes, because despite the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed it and re-watch it pretty regularly, its a serious investment in time, and moves too slowly for a lot of people.

I'm kind of in the same boat there. LoGH is one of my all time favorite shows but I get that it's not for everyone. So its not always the show I would recommend first.

You're wrong. Most people who like it like it because its the first anime thing they saw on television

fixed that for you. and bebop really isn't the 'trope breaker' that you think it is.

[BloodEagle]

I'm only watching Black Lagoon for the first time right now (soooo many bleeps on Toonami, fun times)

Wait. Toonami is airing Black Lagoon?

Did they cut out entire episodes? (I mean, there are a few that make the Requiem For a Dream look like freaking Care Bears)

Are they going to air Elfen Leid, next?

[Mongoose]

Why would you subject yourself to censorship willingly? Doesn't exactly sound like you're watching black lagoon the way its meant to be watched.

I could watch my Blu-rays, but the only censorship going on in the broadcast are just bleeped-out F-bombs, so I'm not missing anything.  Quite honestly I often find bleeps more amusing than the word they're replacing.

My personal gripe about bebop is that you can pretty much watch the episodes in any order and not a lot would change. I'm personally more of a fan of shows that tell an ungoing story rather than being episodic in nature. Bebop doesn't really have much of an overarching storyline going. It does do a lot of things really well, but it never caught me by the balls like some other shows have.

Yes, Bebop is episodic, but it seems kind of silly to criticize it for being exactly what it's designed to be: it's almost like griping that Schindler's List was shot in black-and-white.  (You're not the only person I've seen say this, so I'm not just singling you out personally or anything.)  Bebop's core focus was always on its characters, and the rag-tag family that they form: even though most of its episodes are one-off stories, almost all of them contribute to that theme in some way.  Spike's past and how he's forced to deal with it are the core of that development, but not the sole extent of it.  But hey, if it didn't really click for you, I can't magically make that happen.

If you enjoyed Trigun, you'd probably like GunXsword too btw. (If you havent seen it already)

I've heard it's pretty bad, and it seems to be trying really hard to be shows from several years before it.  On the other hand, Goro Taniguchi apparently directed it, so it presumably has unintentional comedy if nothing else.

Call it "emo" or "edgy". You gotta agree with me that wolf's rain is not trying to set a very happy and not depressing atmosphere (The fact that I got the show recommended to me by a friend who was heavily in a gothic phase probably didn't help)

Well of course it's not happy, but again, it's not meant to be. Just because it's more somber in tone doesn't mean it can't be good; many of the all-time classics across all types of literature are what we'd call tragedies.  Wolf's Rain pulls off some really interesting blending of Western and Eastern spiritual elements, and it's both aesthetically and aurally gorgeous.  It's one of the few shows in any medium that can manage to choke me up just with a few bars of music.

Oh and it's not exactly like moe is a recent thing. Its hardly like older anime were all masterpieces and devoid of fanservice. And there have been a plentiful amount of good recent shows that I could go on about. Anime is still plenty diverse to this day imho. Just don't stare yourself blind on the things you don't like.

There are certainly past shows and elements of shows that could be labeled "moe" today, but that specific term and what it implies has only been widespread in the fandom for the past 7 or 8 years.  And of course there were plenty of terrible older shows, and those that were just meant to be cheesecake, but there's a certain specific aesthetic targeting the hardcore Japanese otaku market that drives late-night anime, one that's fairly easy to point out, and it's a fairly-new phenomenon.  I'm not saying that there haven't been good series created over that time, but when you just look at the seasonal preview graphics, there are some pretty glaring trends that stick out.  Personally I feel like the Japanese industry is painting itself into a corner, trying to target a shrinking demographic with paint-by-numbers fandom checklists as opposed to just basic good storytelling and character-writing.  A number of well-respected Japanese industry personalities have said as much, Hayao Miyazaki himself most recently.

I'm kind of in the same boat there. LoGH is one of my all time favorite shows but I get that it's not for everyone. So its not always the show I would recommend first.

It'd be pretty heavy as a starter series, but man, anyone who has even a passing interest in high-concept sci-fi absolutely owes it to themselves to give it a watch.  There really hasn't been anything else like it, and I don't think there ever will be.

Wait. Toonami is airing Black Lagoon?

Did they cut out entire episodes? (I mean, there are a few that make the Requiem For a Dream look like freaking Care Bears)

Are they going to air Elfen Leid, next?

Yes, no, and I hope not, because it apparently sucks. Toonami's been part of [adult swim] for over a year now, and [as] hasn't significantly edited anime for a good decade at this point.

[Spoon]

Yes, Bebop is episodic, but it seems kind of silly to criticize it for being exactly what it's designed to be: it's almost like griping that Schindler's List was shot in black-and-white.  (You're not the only person I've seen say this, so I'm not just singling you out personally or anything.)  Bebop's core focus was always on its characters, and the rag-tag family that they form: even though most of its episodes are one-off stories, almost all of them contribute to that theme in some way.  Spike's past and how he's forced to deal with it are the core of that development, but not the sole extent of it.  But hey, if it didn't really click for you, I can't magically make that happen.

Its valid criticism in the same way that you criticize moe and ecchi shows for being designed exactly that what they are designed to be.
In the end it all comes down to taste, preference and opinions.

If you enjoyed Trigun, you'd probably like GunXsword too btw. (If you havent seen it already)

I've heard it's pretty bad, and it seems to be trying really hard to be shows from several years before it.  On the other hand, Goro Taniguchi apparently directed it, so it presumably has unintentional comedy if nothing else.

Well in my opinion you heard wrong. But hey, opinions.

Well of course it's not happy, but again, it's not meant to be. Just because it's more somber in tone doesn't mean it can't be good; many of the all-time classics across all types of literature are what we'd call tragedies.  Wolf's Rain pulls off some really interesting blending of Western and Eastern spiritual elements, and it's both aesthetically and aurally gorgeous.  It's one of the few shows in any medium that can manage to choke me up just with a few bars of music.

I found it aesthetically really plain and boring looking personally and I really couldn't get into the atmosphere or the characters. But since I only saw a limited amount of episodes before I dropped it I can't really make a judgement call whenever I find it a good or bad show, just that it didnt really tickle my fancy and that I didn't get any enjoyment out of it.

There are certainly past shows and elements of shows that could be labeled "moe" today, but that specific term and what it implies has only been widespread in the fandom for the past 7 or 8 years.  And of course there were plenty of terrible older shows, and those that were just meant to be cheesecake, but there's a certain specific aesthetic targeting the hardcore Japanese otaku market that drives late-night anime, one that's fairly easy to point out, and it's a fairly-new phenomenon.  I'm not saying that there haven't been good series created over that time, but when you just look at the seasonal preview graphics, there are some pretty glaring trends that stick out.  Personally I feel like the Japanese industry is painting itself into a corner, trying to target a shrinking demographic with paint-by-numbers fandom checklists as opposed to just basic good storytelling and character-writing.  A number of well-respected Japanese industry personalities have said as much, Hayao Miyazaki himself most recently.

Miyazaki is an old geezer who has retired like 5 times already. I take his ramblings with a grain of salt 
But yeah there is an ungoing trend of the anime industry overspecializing themselves toward the otaku market. And they can keep doing that because japanese otaku's keep on being willing to buy #13 in a dozen harem anime obscenely overprized BD's and DVD's. This is actually pretty well known by most anime watchers by now I think.
But you know what? I don't even care, because I have thrown away my elitist mantle a long time ago and can enjoy even the dumbest of shows. That includes shows that involves having the main character power up his mech with ero particles by molesting women. What can I say? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It'd be pretty heavy as a starter series, but man, anyone who has even a passing interest in high-concept sci-fi absolutely owes it to themselves to give it a watch.  There really hasn't been anything else like it, and I don't think there ever will be.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-02-12/legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-novels-get-anime
There will be something like it

Yes, no, and I hope not, because it apparently sucks.

I'm so totally not a fan of writing shows off based on other people's opinions without having seen anything of it myself to form a proper opinion of it.
(ya know, the thing that you are doing right there)

[Mongoose]

Its valid criticism in the same way that you criticize moe and ecchi shows for being designed exactly that what they are designed to be.
In the end it all comes down to taste, preference and opinions.

Fair enough, but I think there's something of a difference in that episodic storytelling is a model that's as old as storytelling itself, and even if it's personally not your taste, it's a simple affair to come up with examples that have something worthwhile or compelling to say.  Whereas shows about cute girls sitting around eating cake, or a story about a milquetoast guy who has ten hot chicks falling over him for no discernible reason...kinda more difficult to think of examples.  (School Days, maybe? :trollface:)

Miyazaki is an old geezer who has retired like 5 times already. I take his ramblings with a grain of salt 
But yeah there is an ungoing trend of the anime industry overspecializing themselves toward the otaku market. And they can keep doing that because japanese otaku's keep on being willing to buy #13 in a dozen harem anime obscenely overprized BD's and DVD's. This is actually pretty well known by most anime watchers by now I think.

You're exactly right, but therein lies the problem: the more you try to target that insular audience with almost focus-group-created shows you know they'll snap up, the more you limit your ability to tell a breadth of good stories.  They'll still get made, but they'll just be fewer in number and harder to pick out.  I don't think we'll ever see a repeat the sheer creative explosion of the huge OVA boom of the early 90s, or the glut of high-quality stuff from the later 90s to early 00s; the market's just too different.  It's also not much of a sound long-term strategy either: Japan's burgeoning demographics crisis is no secret, so the age group the industry is going for will just continue to shrink over time.  At some point that well's going to start to dry up, and then what?

It's not even a problem limited to anime, either: I know at least one really prominent Japanese games developer (can't remember who) has repeatedly spoken out about the state of his domestic industry, and how Japan's output is increasingly niche (outside of big universal tentpole stuff like Nintendo IPs) and less relevant.  Back in the 80s and 90s, Japan owned gaming, but unfortunately they're a far cry from it now, and I think we're all poorer for not seeing that continued variety.

But you know what? I don't even care, because I have thrown away my elitist mantle a long time ago and can enjoy even the dumbest of shows. That includes shows that involves having the main character power up his mech with ero particles by molesting women. What can I say? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, some of us haven't thrown in the towel on good taste just yet. I mean I like some dumb stuff too, but only as popcorn entertainment; I need meaty stuff that I can chew on.  I'm not a film buff at all, and I barely read anymore, but animation (so for all intents and purposes anime) is the one entertainment medium where I try and view things with more of a critical eye.  I've seen the amazing stories that anime can tell, and the wonderful visuals it can use to tell them, and when you've seen the best of what the medium is capable of it's hard to be satisfied watching something sub-par.

It'd be pretty heavy as a starter series, but man, anyone who has even a passing interest in high-concept sci-fi absolutely owes it to themselves to give it a watch.  There really hasn't been anything else like it, and I don't think there ever will be.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-02-12/legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-novels-get-anime
There will be something like it

Dammit, I'd almost managed to put that out of my mind. Suffice it to say that whatever form this takes, I think it's going to be unnecessary at the very least.  I mean, the original OVA project was a very talented director and his team working for over a decade to bring the entire series of novels to life...what could a new adaptation possibly add to that.  And I can almost guarantee that they're going to replace all of those beautiful cel-animated space battles with *gag* CGI.

Yes, no, and I hope not, because it apparently sucks.

I'm so totally not a fan of writing shows off based on other people's opinions without having seen anything of it myself to form a proper opinion of it.
(ya know, the thing that you are doing right there)

You might have a point if I was just reading random people on the Internets going "hurrdurr that show sux."  But the opinions I'm talking about are from friends with whom I've been discussing anime for...oh man, it's been almost a decade now.  I'm freakin' old.  But anyway, I know their tastes well, and they know mine, and I trust them enough to put a good deal of stock in their opinions on what they've seen.  Plus with this particular show, I've read enough to know the general premise and how it's pulled off, and it just doesn't seem like something I'd be on board with.  Really pretty opening sequence, though.

[Spoon]

Fair enough, but I think there's something of a difference in that episodic storytelling is a model that's as old as storytelling itself, and even if it's personally not your taste, it's a simple affair to come up with examples that have something worthwhile or compelling to say.  Whereas shows about cute girls sitting around eating cake, or a story about a milquetoast guy who has ten hot chicks falling over him for no discernible reason...kinda more difficult to think of examples.  (School Days, maybe? :trollface:)

There is nothing inherently bad about episodic storytelling but I feel its the inferior option when its used for shows with a more serious setting/tone/story. It's perfectly fine for comedies or slice of life shows though.
Also K-on is a good (slice of life) show, it may seem oh so incredibly silly to you to watch girls drinking tea and eating cake but that's the beauty of anime, it has so many different genres for different strokes of people. (also as a sidenote before that gets brought up again, k-on was popular with a large female audience as well, not just creepy otakus) Not every show needs to have something 'worthwhile' or 'compelling' to say.
For example I have a friend who really enjoys watching anime shows that have 'nothing going on', the typical slice of life shows. If you were to force him to watch the Berserk movies he would be very much 'not amused'. That's just not his thing.

You're exactly right, but therein lies the problem: the more you try to target that insular audience with almost focus-group-created shows you know they'll snap up, the more you limit your ability to tell a breadth of good stories.  They'll still get made, but they'll just be fewer in number and harder to pick out.  I don't think we'll ever see a repeat the sheer creative explosion of the huge OVA boom of the early 90s, or the glut of high-quality stuff from the later 90s to early 00s; the market's just too different.  It's also not much of a sound long-term strategy either: Japan's burgeoning demographics crisis is no secret, so the age group the industry is going for will just continue to shrink over time.  At some point that well's going to start to dry up, and then what?

The japanese are seemingly pretty bad at adapting their business models to changing times.
If they had a none retarded distribution model and business model they could get a lot more money out of the anime watching world outside of japan too. (Just produce more shows like shingeki no kyojin and they'd be golden)

It's not even a problem limited to anime, either: I know at least one really prominent Japanese games developer (can't remember who) has repeatedly spoken out about the state of his domestic industry, and how Japan's output is increasingly niche (outside of big universal tentpole stuff like Nintendo IPs) and less relevant.  Back in the 80s and 90s, Japan owned gaming, but unfortunately they're a far cry from it now, and I think we're all poorer for not seeing that continued variety.

I think I read that too.
It's a bloody shame really.
Square-enix is a great example of the japanese game industry gone ****...

Dammit, I'd almost managed to put that out of my mind. Suffice it to say that whatever form this takes, I think it's going to be unnecessary at the very least.  I mean, the original OVA project was a very talented director and his team working for over a decade to bring the entire series of novels to life...what could a new adaptation possibly add to that.  And I can almost guarantee that they're going to replace all of those beautiful cel-animated space battles with *gag* CGI.

To be completely fair, honest and objective. Most LoGH space battles were still shots of a fleet formation with the occasional ship exploding. It was not really pushing handdrawn space ship animation to the limits... If decent looking CGI can make the space battle scenes be more dynamic I would have no objections to that. For example Space battleship yamato 2199 had pretty passable cgi for its ships.

You might have a point if I was just reading random people on the Internets going "hurrdurr that show sux."  But the opinions I'm talking about are from friends with whom I've been discussing anime for...oh man, it's been almost a decade now.  I'm freakin' old.  But anyway, I know their tastes well, and they know mine, and I trust them enough to put a good deal of stock in their opinions on what they've seen.  Plus with this particular show, I've read enough to know the general premise and how it's pulled off, and it just doesn't seem like something I'd be on board with.  Really pretty opening sequence, though.

fair enough, I can't argue against that.

[Fury]

Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei seems pretty interesting. For once the protagonist is not a wimp, weakling, idiot or a nuisance. We don't get enough decent protagonists.

[Max Sterling]

Hey did any of you happen to catch Kick Heart on Toonami when it was on? I played Devil Chicken (the wrestler) and also the Parrot.