What it seems to me that everyone really wants is to have a system wherein we make decisions based on your view of how the forum ought to be run - and we can't do that for each and every one of the couple of hundred plus active members that we have. Like I said, as a group, you seem to want the impossible.
One thousand times this.
God, what an incredibly depressing thing to read. After all this discussion, all these clear, coherent statements pointing in the same direction, this is what you've taken away?
Although MP-Ryan has already provided a really good response, let me try one more time to deal with the misapprehensions that seem to be driving things in circles.
"Temp ban after one offence, Permanant ban after another".
Your entire argument seems to be based on the notion that we are going to be working like this.
Don't work like this. Nobody has asked for it. SA doesn't work like this. I doubt PA does either. Use the tools available. Give non-cumulative probations for small offenses. As MP-Ryan said, take smaller, proactive measures to keep threads working well. If people are problems in GenDisc,
ban them from GenDisc instead of the whole forums.
You're right, essentially - everything we do is discussion. But the problems people are worried about are primarily emerging as a result of discussions unrelated to modding, but the kind of heavy handed approach being advocated would see people banned from the entire forum, and like it or not, not being able to be part of HLP will inevitably decrease people's desire and ability to mod for FS. Which is exactly what we don't want to do.
The degree of self-paralysis here is baffling. MP-Ryan has already explained why this doesn't have to happen.
I'm just going to quote his points because they represent what's been asked for across this whole discussion. Please let me know if you genuinely believe these are impossible:
What I'm asking for, generally, is less moderation, and aimed at the problem children who are doing the egregiously-obnoxious things that annoy everyone.
Lorric is still posting in GenDisc.
Do I care if a thread gets derailed by substantive discussion (e.g. the '*****' discussion)? No. Do I care if it gets derailed by meme images? Yes. Do I care if someone acts like an asshole generally? No. Do I can if they use racist/homophobic language? A thousand times yes. You know what irks me most? Thread closure, instead of shutting down the children causing problems in it. Seriously, for every time a thread has been locked, it usually could have been resolved with 2-3 temp bans of a single-day duration to the problem kids, and let everyone else carry on.
Probations work. Garden the discussion so the good stuff remains, don't just close it all down.
Define a few - few, mind, a short list is all - of things that will instantly get you temp-banned. File the rest under a "good behaviour" guideline. Quit worrying about active moderation of good behaviour unless there is either (1) a report from a user, or (2) a consistent pattern of disruption, flaming, etc.
You want good members, not just good posts. If a usually substantive and polite member's having a bad day, you don't need to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Communicate. If people ragequit HLP because they've received a week off from GenDisc, they're not here for the right reasons,
The notion that what's been asked here is somehow impossible is really the first piece of evidence I've seen that actual improvement may be impossible. The consensus has been so overwhelming. And yet a lot of the difficulty seems to come down to this:
In short, you're angry at us for making decisions based on our best judgement, and encouraging us to change the system so that we rely solely on our best judgement.
I hesitate to say it, but the problem may simply be that these judgments haven't always been very good. There's been action where no action seemed necessary, and total inaction where action was clearly overdue. What may help with this is:
Act sooner when a problem occurs, but with a softer hand. This allows a feedback cycle to develop, and it becomes clear whether escalation is appropriate.
Stop thinking of moderation as a system of locks and bans. Take less absolutist, more gradated action. A faceless warning without any room for dialogue is never as good as a warning with a PM.
Recognize that the forums have two distinct sectors which are going to require different approaches. GenDisc and Gaming Disc are very different from the rest and you can always make it clear that standards of substance and conduct are higher there.
