Author Topic: Live roleplaying project  (Read 5121 times)

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Offline athropy

  • 24
Live roleplaying project
I'm pretty new with this, so bear with me.

We are having a live roleplaying event in the late fall. It takes place in a vagabond freighter ship, escorted by a few fighters. Naturally the plot thickens with more-than-life characters and clichee twists. To spare you the details, we're experimenting with different technologies to implement in the live roleplying scenario. Namely, we're actually building the insides of a rather big modified freighter (about 20 people), a space station lounge, a few smaller vessels (transport, a couple of fighters) and combining them with actual game engine. Namely (you guessed already, didnt you) Freespace 2.

And here the problem begin. I'm being selfish here and just listing everything I want and need.

  DELUXE
   - A flyable, fighter dockable ship (not necessarely a capital ship)
   - A way to expand the fighters limited point of view (for example, tactical displays, radar displays, communication pads)
   - A Gamemaster option, to implement realtime changes in the mission and monitor the players progress
   - The cutscenes are obvious

I'd appreciate the feedback. I know this is a bit over the top, but you have to start with big plans and when everything fails go with something that actually works. Thanks for the patience, I understand that I posted this a bit wrong .. I intended to put it in the requested changes thread, it is just that i don't have any experience with forums at all. :doh:
« Last Edit: July 08, 2002, 06:21:39 am by 824 »

 

Offline Pera

  • Tapper
  • 28
Live roleplaying project
Quote
- A flyable, fighter dockable ship (not necessarely a capital ship)


A new ship, that's simple.

Quote
- A way to expand the fighters limited point of view (for example, tactical displays, radar displays, communication pads)


This could be possible by simply editing the HUD

Quote
- A Gamemaster option, to implement realtime changes in the mission and monitor the players progress


Even with the source code I'm afraid this might be a bit too hard to accomplish. Perhaps some _really_ heavy mission scripting would help, but even that wouldn't make it possible to do absolutely anything(as you can in a LARP)

Not sure about the cutscenes.
One is never alone with a rubberduck - Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

The Apocalypse Project

 

Offline athropy

  • 24
Thanks for the quick reply.

If it really is that simple to add a flyable freighter or sorts into the game, all the better. That is the most essential thing to accomplish to us after all. Well, if that would be a simple thing. How about dividing the control of the ship to several stations.. gun control, pilot control, tactical control, machinery control? I know that there was talk away back, when the source code hadn't been released that it would be nice to have a gunnery position, like in XW:A. Can that be done now? Not really that important to me, at least I'm not gonna put any effort to it, but that would be an atmospheric boost to have a few gun turrets (flashbacks from Star Wars Death Star escape scene, perhaps)

I think I wasn't that clear about the "expanding the fighters limited point of view". What I meant was, to have the information of the game sent to other stations besides the actual pilots. The captain oughta have a clear picture of the situation for his decicions, even though he's not actually flying the ship. Tactical officer could monitor the escort fighters and navigational officer could be presented with a larger map of the region and it's jump nodes (the easiest one to do), the crew could have warning and ships status monitors in their personal quarters  ("Brace for impact", "Red Alert") and the Engineer has the realtime image of the ship status and so forth. This is a secondary thing, but I think it could be done, the information is somewhere in the code .. we just need to pass it on, right?

All the rest (the cutscenes, game master options) are just extra bonus that can alternatively be done with careful mission planning (in-game + off-game) and manual cutscenes (switching from the game engine to another source while a new mission loads).

Any pointers?

 

Offline Pera

  • Tapper
  • 28
Player controlled turrets are something that I think could be possible, someday. But about diving information, the problem would be, that I think all of the computers(I understood you are going to use multiple computers on LAN) should have a bit different modifications, so I'm not sure how well would it work. Even if it did, making that kind of changes might be just a bit too hard.
One is never alone with a rubberduck - Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

The Apocalypse Project

 

Offline Kitsune

  • 27
Live roleplaying project
If I read all that correctly, you're asking for people to be in a ship and to divide controll of each section to different players?

That requires a different engine all together.

Now you could possibly do a really big ship, let every player meet in the 'hangar' and get to defend the ship...

But otherwise, well, wait till I finish the LARP statistics for the ships...

Then you can use a webcam or chatroom device for internet play.

http://www.furnation.com/corwyn/freespacestuff/deimos.html

This is a temporary version untill I recieve more feedback on terminology and such.  

Remember, a Work In Progress...
~Space Kitsuné
6-Tailed RPG Nut.

"Why the hell don't we have any missles on this damn boat?!"
"But Sir, we have Tempests, Rockeyes, and unknown bombs."
"Like I said ensign, 'Why don't we have any missles on this damn boat?!"

"I went to a fight last night and a hockey game broke out."  -Groucho Marx

 

Offline athropy

  • 24
Live roleplaying project
Thank you all for your interest :nod:

About the engine requrements. I know that Freespace isn't designed for multiple crew members, but what needs to be remembered is that what we want for the players dont necessarely need to change anything as dramatically as it may sound. We dont actually need the game engine to report that a power rele is burned and need to be fixed. It's all about the atmosphere in live roleplaying anyway, the thing we're trying to accomplish differs from actual gameplaying a bit (hard to explain). The most important thing we need from the game engine is the actual flying. Everything else can be done with other tricks. But to elaborate, here's a rough scetch of our current plan, bear with me because I'm not a native english speaking person, nor is this easy to explain in words.

Shiptypes:
- A larger ship with aprox. 20 crewmen (player controllable)
- A couple of escort (player controllable)
- Transport (used only occasionally)
- AI or Non-Player character controlled ships

¤ A couple of Escorts:

The Escort fighters and transports are a pretty obvious thing. Only interesting thing is the actual docking (and not meaning the game engine), the platforms they're built on need to movable, for example from the place where the cruiser is built to where the space station is set (this all sounds fancier than it actually is). They only have one interface, for lack of a better word .. the actual game engine that allows them to fly in the virtual space with the Freespace engine. Phew, if it was only that this project would be simple.

¤ A larger ship

But the problem is the cruiser / freighter / corvette whatever type of ship that is essential for this (imagine playing for seven hours alone in a cockpit of a lowsy fighter) enviroment. Of cource this ship also has a pilot and if everything fails that's all the interface they'll get to the Freespace 2 engine, possibly a Star Trek like wallscreen with a video projector is suitable, dont you think? But if possible, it would be great to have different sort of displays for the other crewmen as I explained before. These displays dont necessarely (or even probably)  need to be done using the actual game engine, only the game information! If need be, we'll do it the hard way and type down the progress of different vessels manually and pass them on to different screens via html, chatroom, IRC or webcam tehcnology (undecided or unimportant). But if it were possible, it would be all the better if this could be done automatically, all we need to modify is to enable the game engine to broadcast it's statistic to a third party, a text file, server/client application, SQl database, whatever. Also, I think it would be rather easy to divide simple control to more than one player (the pilot) in the cruiser (at least you can split the ps2 connection to several sources), to what extent .. I don't know, just gotta try and use our / your imagination. But honestly, any suggestions would be great, eventhough we have people working with this, none of us are that experienced with game coding .. and you gotta admit, the freespace source is quite a monster. What would be fun to know for starters is for example where the game engine receives its input and could that be modified in any way and where it stores ship data / status and could that be passed on in any way. :D

¤ AI controlled ships

Are basically just cannon food and casual entertainment, but we're planning a plot twist that would involve a rescue operation from a big evil capital ship. As Kitsune suggested earlier, this game wouldn't only be a Freespace game, it's just a small part of the actual experience, allowing us to have a nice virtual enviroment in space. The game probably has scenes (for lack of a better word) where players need to defend the ship outside the Freespace engine when actual boarding parties try to take over the ship (with softair guns), but this wouldn't even be fun with the Freespace engine even if it could be done (I honestly dont understand First Person Shooters, what's the fun part of punching your keyboard when you can pull the trigger).

Kitsune:
Crew: 900 Crew (100 Officers, 800 Enlisted)
Troop Capacity: 200 Marines

Talking about ambitious plans, even I'm not that ambitious to have 900 players in my project, but *grin*, thanks for the reply.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2002, 06:27:40 am by 824 »

 

Offline Kitsune

  • 27
Live roleplaying project
Whoa, you completely lost me there.
No, wait, I think I lost you.

You don't seem to understand.  
When the stats say "Crew: 800 Enlisted, 100 officers"

That means that the ship has 1,000 total people on the ship on average.  

In an RPG setting that would be at best 2 players, and 998 NPC's. (Non-player characters.)

The players would be A captain, and an executive officer.

The rest of the peons who make the ship fly right and shoot stuff would be run by the gm kind of autonomously.  Or if you were one of the 200 marines on board, you might be getting transferred to another ship, or being a gunner...

You don't need a "player" for every person in the universe, cause if you did oh boy...

What I supplied is a sample ship with statistics, a small history (ripped right out of the fs database sure, but it's solid enough right now,) and listings for armor and weapon damages for ship to ship combat.

This is meant for a type of game where you have a handful of players, most likely simple pilots aboard a carrier or destroyer who do what we do in FS.  Fly about, shoot stuff, go home.  But once home it all changes, go talk to the commander, tell him he's a flaming idiot, laugh your ass off as he strips you of rank, kick his ass then write up a new character...  (Come on, who wouldn't do that just once if we had the little button that says "Screw you!  I'm taking sick leave!")


What you're wanting is similar but done in a graphical engine that would best be described as a MMORPG.  (Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Role-Playing-Game).  This would be like everquest, dark age of camalot, or the soon to be released star wars: galaxies (or some bs like that).

My suggestion for your game however is this:

Meet online with others in an online community, be it forums, chat, whatever.  Set the rp guidelines.  For first person shooting events (inside a freighter or something) have someone find a FPS game such as quake or doom, make a modpack for that mission.
When you want to fly around and blow up cruisers and shivans, have everyone meet in a game online where the gm hosts and watches, bringing in shivans with special keybutton pressed scripting.
When the fighting is over, return to the board and contiue the rp where you can do other things.

This will take a lot of work initially, but once you have everything modded to standards.  And the GM gets a hang on mission designing and balancing, it would go a lot smoother.

--edit-- oops, missed something.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2002, 07:53:13 am by 289 »
~Space Kitsuné
6-Tailed RPG Nut.

"Why the hell don't we have any missles on this damn boat?!"
"But Sir, we have Tempests, Rockeyes, and unknown bombs."
"Like I said ensign, 'Why don't we have any missles on this damn boat?!"

"I went to a fight last night and a hockey game broke out."  -Groucho Marx

 

Offline LtNarol

  • Biased Banshee
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th
Live roleplaying project
turret control is easy if the ship is stationary...for a moving ship you'd need a new engine.  My suggestion is that you edit the huds on different pcs so they show what you want them to show, for the turrets, you'd need to create a new ship (for the best result) that looks like a turret, with a forward speed of 0 but a close to normal rotation rate.  You can then stick it in Fred2 and put it on a turret base or just stick it really close to the hull.

Im really surprised that anyone is going through this much trouble for an RPG....

 

Offline Pera

  • Tapper
  • 28
Live roleplaying project
Kitsune, I think he's talking about a real _live action role play_, so they don't play online, but in real life :)
One is never alone with a rubberduck - Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

The Apocalypse Project

 

Offline athropy

  • 24
Live roleplaying project
Yeah, I think you *did* lose me somewhere in the process. But maybe a few helpful points would clarify something

¤ This is a LIVE roleplay(LARP or LRP), which is completely different compared to average RPG. Especially (not sure how it's done abroad) in Finland the rules are almost nonexistent (meaning, there are no silly hitpoints and such) and rely heavily on putting your soul to the character. But the main thing you've missed here is that when a live roleplaying event is organized there are actual people and actual places, not imagined ones. In this case, we're really building the insides of a small cruiser / freighter (not in a game engine, in real life) and assigning it with its appropriate crew, with their own personality and background (with actual people, you cant just imagine them there, at least it wouldn't be fun that way). My problem here isn't the roleplaying part or advertising, eventhough I'm greatful for the tips. This part is after all the part I and the other members are familiar with. The thing that we need help with is only the technical aspect of the engine we use to emulate the feeling of actually flying in space, which we are planning to implemented with the modified Freespace 2 multiplayer, but all the same can be done without.

¤ This is not your average LAN-game, or even Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Role-Playing-Game, this is a live roleplaying event, eventhough it exploits the possibilities of multiplayer space simulation, the Freespace engine is just a small (but interesting) part of the project. The most important thing is the characters taking part on a journey, not trying to win something (blaah, blaah, sorry).

¤ The game masters, or even the non-player characters arent what I think you have in mind. I know this can be a bit confusing, at least if you're RPG person, but the game-masters (or preferably writers, or organizers) only set the game in motion, write the backgrounds, explain the events, elaborate the characters, design the settings. But when the actual game begins they usually dont have any control over the gameplay, the game is driven mostly (preferably entirely) by the players in their character. The non-player characters in live roleplaying doesn't mean "characters controlled by the game master" but players that arent entirely playing in-character, or inside the game. For example a non-player character in this project could be a mother calling to his son who is a player in the spaceship. In this game the gamemasters have a more demanding role because of all the Freespace organizing (docking, mission loading, alerts and such), usually they're just part of the game as players themselves.

¤ The game isn't done in segments. It has a clear beginning and ending in which time the players ARE their characters.. they cant just "lets have a coffee while the next mission is loading, eh what did you think of the football match yesterday". Fortunately we dont have any need for a FPS engine, since all actual conflicts inside the ship are dealt with less virtual weapons (softairs), as I tryed to explain before.

softairs = replicas of guns that shoot 6mm plastic bullets.

> The rest of the peons who make the ship fly right and shoot
> stuff would be run by the gm kind of autonomously

Not in our game they wont. Not if its up to us. We have a great background story for the navigator and the pilot, and damn if i'm gonna let some virtual player in my head act them out, besides whos gonna start a mutiny in the ship if there are only virtual first officers ..  :nod:

If specific questions arise concerning live roleplaying, or non-specific .. i'm not that picky, they can always be addressed directly to me via email, I understand that this isnt the place for that kind of discussion.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2002, 09:44:37 am by 824 »

 

Offline athropy

  • 24
Live roleplaying project
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol

Im really surprised that anyone is going through this much trouble for an RPG....


I'm surprised that anyone is going through this much trouble for something less :rolleyes:

But thanks for the tips with the turrets, of cource our ship is not stationary, but its good to know before hands what we cant have. I didn't quite get that pcs editing tip, I would need to have that information in different displays inside the same ship. Can different players play the same ship, each with uniquely modified freespace?

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Live roleplaying project
I think what he's saying is to make a turret-shaped 'ship' with a maximum speed of 0, import it into Freespace, then, in a mission, put it onto the ship you want to have turrets. Then you play it in multiplayer. This would give the appearance of turrets and most of the functionality without having to do any game engine work.
-C

 

Offline Kitsune

  • 27
Live roleplaying project
Well then that is different.

Sorry that I got carried away on a different tangent then.  I completely missed it.

My brain's too fried right now to ponder helping in any useful sense, so I'll just step on out.
~Space Kitsuné
6-Tailed RPG Nut.

"Why the hell don't we have any missles on this damn boat?!"
"But Sir, we have Tempests, Rockeyes, and unknown bombs."
"Like I said ensign, 'Why don't we have any missles on this damn boat?!"

"I went to a fight last night and a hockey game broke out."  -Groucho Marx

 

Offline athropy

  • 24
Live roleplaying project
Yes, I understood the "turret-shaped 'ship' with a maximum speed of 0" part, and it's a great idea. I'm not that interested in gun turrets that much, though, it wouldn't be that interesting because you'd still have to use a joystick and a screen to use them, and that dont feel right. It'd be great, but not top priority. But I think I can use the same idea on sensors and engineering. For example, I can have a freighter with two (modified) ships docked with it, the other only has a view for the sensors (radar, maps and such) and the other only has a view for the engineering (enginepower, damage, etc). This way I can duplicate some of the freespace data easily (after all, you can use both the monitor output and the tv-out) to different locations besides the pilote view. I'll just have to see how that works, I don't have the opportunity to test that kind of multiplayer experiments right now, but I will get to it as soon as possible. Has anybody tried something like that? For example is the docking possible in a multiplayer game where one player-controlled fighter is trying to dock into a player-controlled (modified to  "player_ship" "bomber") freighter? Any complications I should be aware of?

But yeah, things are already well away. I got to fly a handsome freighter last night (why didn't anyone tell me it was that simple) and it worked just fine. It was nice and slow in movement and had a "big ship" feel to it. The AI-controlled turrets also worked and fired hostiles, although a quick question arised:  
- Is there a way to shut down the AI controlled turrets while in the game ("cease fire" "open fire")?
- And similarily, could it be possible to add new navigation commands and such ("lay a course to 1,1,0", "self destruct in five seconds", cant seem to come up with good examples today).  A big thanks to Pera for a helping a newbie out. This helps things alot.

 

Offline Pera

  • Tapper
  • 28
Live roleplaying project
Unfortunately, only one ship can be docked to a ship at a time. It's some kind of an engine limitation, and I'm not sure if it can be fixed with the source code. Also, there is no way the player can dock his ship to something, the ship must be docked at the start of the mission, or an AI controlled ship must dock to the players ship.

AI controlled turrets can only be shut down by using SEXP:s(ie. in the mission editor). Some new commands can be added by using imagination and the "when-key-pressed"-SEXP, but they usually work only once. So here comes the scripting part again.
One is never alone with a rubberduck - Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

The Apocalypse Project

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Live roleplaying project
Quote
Has anybody tried something like that? For example is the docking possible in a multiplayer game where one player-controlled fighter is trying to dock into a player-controlled (modified to "player_ship" "bomber") freighter? Any complications I should be aware of?

I don't think that will work, I'm pretty certain only ships flow by AI can dock to another ship.
Quote
- Is there a way to shut down the AI controlled turrets while in the game ("cease fire" "open fire")?
- And similarily, could it be possible to add new navigation commands and such ("lay a course to 1,1,0", "self destruct in five seconds", cant seem to come up with good examples today). A big thanks to Pera for a helping a newbie out. This helps things alot.


Those last two, those might be possible by combining SEXPs with an in-game command prompt or something of the sort. Like

if player_command_equals 'lay in a course to %1,%2,%3'
set-waypoint '%1,%2,%3'

Or some such. Then, in game, you could type in "Lay in a course to 1,2,3" or "Lay in a course to 4,5,6" and the waypoint would automatically be set. If you want to make sure they don't go off the map:

if player_command_equals 'lay in a course to %1,%2,%3'
and %1 < 10
and %2 < 10
and %3 < 10
set-waypoint '%1,%2,%3'

So simple, yet incredibly flexible :eek:
Another way you could do this would be to hard code it into the game so it would automatically parse text typed in the multiplayer comm prompt and assign new objectives for the AI of various ships depending on the commands.
-C

 

Offline athropy

  • 24
Live roleplaying project
Damn, that docking would be the next most important thing to accomplish. Any plans to fix the docking problem with the source code? Guess we just have to be clever with the mission planning if it cant be helped. The sexp player commands seem to be really flexible indeed. Thanks for the tips, I'll try them out. Especially switching off the turret fire would be handy, the ships just too smart if it starts firing alien ships without orders from the captain..  :)

Could the docking be done the ugly way? For example whenever a ship wants to dock it flyes near the fighter bay and jumps out. Can the jumping animations be removed, so it would only seem like the ship disappeared in the fighter bay? That would make coming back a bit difficult, but anyway.. it would give some room for the mission planning.

It really is a shame that this function isnt a part of the engine, wonder why they left it out? Isnt there a key press for docking or something? And if the AI can do it, why cant the players?

 

Offline WMCoolmon

  • Purveyor of space crack
  • 213
Live roleplaying project
Quote
Originally posted by athropy
Damn, that docking would be the next most important thing to accomplish. Any plans to fix the docking problem with the source code? Guess we just have to be clever with the mission planning if it cant be helped. The sexp player commands seem to be really flexible indeed. Thanks for the tips, I'll try them out. Especially switching off the turret fire would be handy, the ships just too smart if it starts firing alien ships without orders from the captain..  :)

Erm, the SEXP stuff isn't added in the game, it'd have to be done with source editing.
-C

 

Offline Pera

  • Tapper
  • 28
Live roleplaying project
Quote
Originally posted by athropy
Could the docking be done the ugly way? For example whenever a ship wants to dock it flyes near the fighter bay and jumps out. Can the jumping animations be removed, so it would only seem like the ship disappeared in the fighter bay? That would make coming back a bit difficult, but anyway.. it would give some room for the mission planning.
 


Sure, this is possible just the way you described it. Just check the ships "no warp effect" box in FRED2. But if a player ship does this in a multiplayer mission, it ends the mission from everybody.

So this works only when ending missions or for AI ships.
One is never alone with a rubberduck - Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

The Apocalypse Project

 

Offline athropy

  • 24
Live roleplaying project
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon

Erm, the SEXP stuff isn't added in the game, it'd have to be done with source editing.


Well now, lets get into some source editing then *grin*. I would love to see that work, maybe if i have some spare time to fiddle around I'll get myself a Visual6 compiler and try things out. Its a great idea never the less.

Damn, mission ends when somebody warps out? That's just silly (you notice my lack of experience with the freespace), but I guess it cant be helped. Can the ships be transformed invisible or something? Guess this docking seems more and more a thing that absolutely cant be done with the engine, eh? Well, good thing it's not our only option. Some preplanned docking sequences can be arranged by overriding the Freespace engine display with a docking officer webcam and in the meantime loading a new mission.