[Det. Bullock]

It seems that Thrustmaster wil launch a cheap throttle (between 50 and 100 in american money) to attach to the T16000m and form a HOTAS more reliable than the Saitek/MadCatz stuff that doesn't cost an arm and a leg before the end of the year, there are already pictures floating around the 'net and it looks like a Warthog or X56 throttle but with a slider like the Ch Pro Throttle, this thing might kill the x52pro outright.
There will also be a revamped version of the T16000m with textured buttons and an orange and black colour scheme and a set of pedals.
http://imgur.com/ruVD3uq
http://imgur.com/m2Rcz2X
http://imgur.com/pi8gdBn

[deathspeed]

Nice!  I'll be keeping an eye out for these.

[Cobra]

It won't kill the x52 Pro. The throttle looks like a copy of the CH throttle but with those paddles. Most of the HOTAS buttons on the stick are on the base of the stick. If I bought them they would probably go unused.

[Det. Bullock]

It won't kill the x52 Pro. The throttle looks like a copy of the CH throttle but with those paddles. Most of the HOTAS buttons on the stick are on the base of the stick. If I bought them they would probably go unused.

While it doesn't have as many buttons overall as the x52 it is still a potentially more reliable and less costly alternative to the Saitek offer, which many buy because it's the cheapest HOTAS with magnetic sensors rather than because it's legitimately good, the high failure rate of the thing is notorious and many might just prefer it for that.

But then again, I'm also the one who went with a CH Combatstick because he got really paranoid about the T16000 buttons breaking, and I really didn't like the base buttons too, I wonder why they put them there at all if the left hand has to be resting either on a throttle or a keyboard.

But in general what made me consider CH in the first place is that the aestethics of both TM and Saitek make me think of something made more to be flashy rather than functional, I never understood the LEDs in particular. I get the one on the CH Throttle but the decorative ones make me always think that they might have used the money for the LEDs to make everything else a bit more sturdy.

[Cobra]

I've bought both versions of the x52 pro. The only reason I went to the pro was because I figured the slop in the x52 would be corrected by the pro. Seems to be no difference in the pro, so that was money wasted.

But the thing about the x52 series is how accessible it feels. Yeah, you've got the random ass toggle buttons on the throttle base, but with the pinkie toggle you have about 28 distinct commands on the stick alone. That's before switching to the other two, and not counting the throttle, which has 16 with the pinkie shift. I don't play a lot of actual sims, but in games like FreeSpace, Diaspora, X-Wing (Alliance), even Mechwarrior, I have an unprecedented amount of control;  couple that with, say, Voice Attack, and I'll never be touching the keyboard once while I play.

[Dragon]

Well, CH can do 71 commands (3x24-1) on both throttle and stick each (143 in total, as you only need one mode switch button). Talk about unprecedented. Not that I find use for the mode switch in most cases, 48 controls in total (not counting axes) is more than enough for just about every game out there. The theoretical maximum is 188 independent bindings on the entire HOTAS (8x24-4, you have four modes and two controllers, minus one HAT for the selector), but that requires scripting. And that's not even mentioning axes, of which there are 3 per controller and which are also mode-switchable (giving you 27 axes if you're using the pedals, or even 36 if you're using the scripted modes). Oh, and each axis can be turned into three buttons (deflect positive, deflect negative, center).

Really, perhaps the bes thing about CH is the Control Manager. Sure, it can be annoying at times, but it's really powerful.

But in general what made me consider CH in the first place is that the aestethics of both TM and Saitek make me think of something made more to be flashy rather than functional, I never understood the LEDs in particular. I get the one on the CH Throttle but the decorative ones make me always think that they might have used the money for the LEDs to make everything else a bit more sturdy.

Yeah, one thing I like about CH stuff is that it's got a very "no-nonsense" feeling. Their controllers are designed using the same tenets as actual aircraft controls rather than the usual approach to gaming controllers (seeing as CH is more known for the former than the latter, it's hardly surprising) and the switches probably come off the same assembly line as ones meant for aircraft and industrial equipment. You can even order replacement parts from the industrial catalog, not that you'd ever need to. Other sticks often have tons of blinkenlights and decidedly odd layout decisions that seem to serve aesthetics more than usability (though I never really used a Saitek joystick, so I don't know how they feel). CH gives you a single mode indicator diode and a very ergonomic layout that puts every button right under your fingers.

[Cobra]

Well, the deal maker for me is yaw. I'm used to having a twist stick.

[Det. Bullock]

Well, CH can do 71 commands (3x24-1) on both throttle and stick each (143 in total, as you only need one mode switch button). Talk about unprecedented. Not that I find use for the mode switch in most cases, 48 controls in total (not counting axes) is more than enough for just about every game out there. The theoretical maximum is 188 independent bindings on the entire HOTAS (8x24-4, you have four modes and two controllers, minus one HAT for the selector), but that requires scripting. And that's not even mentioning axes, of which there are 3 per controller and which are also mode-switchable (giving you 27 axes if you're using the pedals, or even 36 if you're using the scripted modes). Oh, and each axis can be turned into three buttons (deflect positive, deflect negative, center).

Really, perhaps the bes thing about CH is the Control Manager. Sure, it can be annoying at times, but it's really powerful.

But in general what made me consider CH in the first place is that the aestethics of both TM and Saitek make me think of something made more to be flashy rather than functional, I never understood the LEDs in particular. I get the one on the CH Throttle but the decorative ones make me always think that they might have used the money for the LEDs to make everything else a bit more sturdy.

Yeah, one thing I like about CH stuff is that it's got a very "no-nonsense" feeling. Their controllers are designed using the same tenets as actual aircraft controls rather than the usual approach to gaming controllers (seeing as CH is more known for the former than the latter, it's hardly surprising) and the switches probably come off the same assembly line as ones meant for aircraft and industrial equipment. You can even order replacement parts from the industrial catalog, not that you'd ever need to. Other sticks often have tons of blinkenlights and decidedly odd layout decisions that seem to serve aesthetics more than usability (though I never really used a Saitek joystick, so I don't know how they feel). CH gives you a single mode indicator diode and a very ergonomic layout that puts every button right under your fingers.

Given that you have some experience, can the throttle be mapped to those old games that have only "+" and "-" without presets for the throttle in some way?
At the moment I could only do the "up and down" with 1 key step but it only allows for throttling up and not for throttling down, I'm cursing Chris Roberts for not providing speed presets easily assignable to the throttle axis like Lawrence Holland did with X-wing and Tie Fighter. 

[Dragon]

I don't see why it wouldn't, though it might be a bit uncomfortable. I've never done it, but it should be possible to set the throttle as "centered" and then assign throttle up and throttle down keys to appropriate deflections. Note, it'll work as a "relative throttle", in that, for example, moving it down will cause the thrust to drop until you recenter it. TBH, in those cases I usually go the lazy route and assign the speed controls to the throttle buttons. Works just as well and is rather trivial to set up.

[Det. Bullock]

I don't see why it wouldn't, though it might be a bit uncomfortable. I've never done it, but it should be possible to set the throttle as "centered" and then assign throttle up and throttle down keys to appropriate deflections. Note, it'll work as a "relative throttle", in that, for example, moving it down will cause the thrust to drop until you recenter it. TBH, in those cases I usually go the lazy route and assign the speed controls to the throttle buttons. Works just as well and is rather trivial to set up.

I know it can be done but I had no success until now (essentially it only throttles up, when I throttle down it does a single keystroke and that's it), it's more of an experiment as by the time I could find the throttle at a decent price I already went through the first three Wing Commander games with speed mapped on the hat switch of the combatstick.
I tried to map the throttle wheel when I still had only the stick of course but after many failed attempts I threw the towel, I kept my left hand on the keyboard anyway, though only for comms and autopilot, it was actually quite weird how few keys the Wing Commander games have compared to X-wing.

[Klaustrophobia]

Pretty much all of the mapping features just described for CH are also available on saitek.  At least on my x45.  Haven't used anything newer, but I don't imagine they took any of that away because it's all software.  In any event, I really dislike 'modes' on my joysticks.  I never find a good, natural way to divide out the controls.  Trying to navigate through different modes to get to the controls I need during combat is far more trouble than just going to the keyboard for me.  I had a good scheme for FS that fit on one mode and kept pretty much all the active combat functions on the stick/throttle.  Comms menu didn't fit, so it broke down significantly for blue planet.

[Det. Bullock]

Pretty much all of the mapping features just described for CH are also available on saitek.  At least on my x45.  Haven't used anything newer, but I don't imagine they took any of that away because it's all software.  In any event, I really dislike 'modes' on my joysticks.  I never find a good, natural way to divide out the controls.  Trying to navigate through different modes to get to the controls I need during combat is far more trouble than just going to the keyboard for me.  I had a good scheme for FS that fit on one mode and kept pretty much all the active combat functions on the stick/throttle.  Comms menu didn't fit, so it broke down significantly for blue planet.

From what I heard the newer saitek software is buggy and tends to crash.
Comm menus are one of the things that I had problem mapping to a HOTAS, with Wing Commander Saga I mapped them to mode 2 and fortunately you didn't have to use them often in that game.

[Cobra]

From what I heard the newer saitek software is buggy and tends to crash.

The software for the X-55, X-56, and X-65F does. Not the X-52 Pro and under software.

[Det. Bullock]

From what I heard the newer saitek software is buggy and tends to crash.

The software for the X-55, X-56, and X-65F does. Not the X-52 Pro and under software.

And they never corrected it?
For what those are worth it's not a good policy to keep the software buggy.

[Cobra]

Supposedly Mad Catz is either under new management or looking to increase the quality of their QA. I know the latter is happening, because initial reports of the X-56 are coming out saying that build quality of the joystick itself is indeed better, at least.

[Det. Bullock]

Supposedly Mad Catz is either under new management or looking to increase the quality of their QA. I know the latter is happening, because initial reports of the X-56 are coming out saying that build quality of the joystick itself is indeed better, at least.

A review I saw on youtube however found the yaw axis developed centering problems after a week of use and the throttle still had the same cable routing problems of the X-55 (which he states he had to send back three times), it seems to be an improvement but not by much.

[jr2]

CH makes actual aircraft controls?  That would seem to be a no-brainer buying decision right there, unless they have crappy manufacturing on the game sticks.  Aircraft have very stringent quality standards.  xD  Can you imagine?  "Yeah, the pilots are all on strike because their flight sticks all developed a drift after a week on brand-new aircraft"  (Actually, the drift would show during flight testing.)

[Klaustrophobia]

I think it's safe to assume their couple hundred dollar consumer joysticks are not manufactured to the same degree of quality as their multi-thousand dollar real counterparts.

In other news, I got to look in the cockpit of an F-16 today.  Turns out this is what the X45 throttle is based on.  Stick was completely different though.  Funnily enough, it looked an awful lot like what I remember a CH stick looking like, but it's been a long time since I've seen a picture of one.  Maybe both companies got the rights to half the controls?    

Also got to fly their (recruiting station) VR 'simulator'.  I put that in quotes because the VR was literally the worst I've ever experienced, including that time at Epcot way back in '96, and the flight mechanics were not even close.  It was even arcady-er than Freespace.  When it started up, I kinda shouted out, "wait, this doesn't roll?" when the tutorial was telling me to move the stick right to turn right, and it yawed.  The staff person just kinda looked at me funny.  Up your game, Air Force recruiting.

[Cobra]

Also got to fly their (recruiting station) VR 'simulator'.  I put that in quotes because the VR was literally the worst I've ever experienced, including that time at Epcot way back in '96, and the flight mechanics were not even close.  It was even arcady-er than Freespace.  When it started up, I kinda shouted out, "wait, this doesn't roll?" when the tutorial was telling me to move the stick right to turn right, and it yawed.  The staff person just kinda looked at me funny.  Up your game, Air Force recruiting.

As an Air Force veteran, I am appalled. Wow. Literally none of that looks good at all. Surprised the Air Force actually has simulators for recruiting, though.

[Det. Bullock]

CH makes actual aircraft controls?  That would seem to be a no-brainer buying decision right there, unless they have crappy manufacturing on the game sticks.  Aircraft have very stringent quality standards.  xD  Can you imagine?  "Yeah, the pilots are all on strike because their flight sticks all developed a drift after a week on brand-new aircraft"  (Actually, the drift would show during flight testing.)

Not quite, otherwise they would make the Warthog look cheap, but they have a reputation for lasting decades, for a while around the year 2000 they also refurbished the old serial and gameport devices if you sent it to them so many have 20 years old sticks still going strong.
From experience I can say they use a very sturdy textured plastic that feels very different from all the sticks I had before, from what I've read around the internet it's supposed to be a polymer injected with fiberglass, and the buttons and hat switches are made from the same material.

I think it's safe to assume their couple hundred dollar consumer joysticks are not manufactured to the same degree of quality as their multi-thousand dollar real counterparts.

In other news, I got to look in the cockpit of an F-16 today.  Turns out this is what the X45 throttle is based on.  Stick was completely different though.  Funnily enough, it looked an awful lot like what I remember a CH stick looking like, but it's been a long time since I've seen a picture of one.  Maybe both companies got the rights to half the controls?    

The Combatstick and Fighterstick are indeed based on the F-16 stick even if they really aren't precise replicas (the shape is slightly different), but I noticed that many american and western fighters use basically the same stick layout and shape with few variations.

The CH Throttle instead is generic, it has only a generic military fighter throttle look but isn't based on any real life throttle.

Also got to fly their (recruiting station) VR 'simulator'.  I put that in quotes because the VR was literally the worst I've ever experienced, including that time at Epcot way back in '96, and the flight mechanics were not even close.  It was even arcady-er than Freespace.  When it started up, I kinda shouted out, "wait, this doesn't roll?" when the tutorial was telling me to move the stick right to turn right, and it yawed.  The staff person just kinda looked at me funny.  Up your game, Air Force recruiting.

LOL