Author Topic: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.  (Read 40673 times)

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
*content*

I'd argue instead for a very short, to the point rules guideline for the entire board, with no exceptions made for particular boards. As an example

Quote from: Yes I'm going to write a rulesset for this entire board fight me
Hard Light strives towards a friendly and constructive forum atmosphere. Please strive to make all your posts either friendly or constructive, and preferably both. Posts that aren't either will be subject to moderator action at their discretion.


Behaviour that we do see as friendly and constructive:

  • Commenting on mods you have played
  • Welcoming new members into our community
  • Providing tech support for members with issues
  • Insightful, well-sourced arguments that people can learn from
  • Basically anything that would make people feel warm and fuzzy inside
Behaviour that we don't see as friendly nor constructive:
  • Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and various other forms of hate speech.
  • All of the slurs
  • Bashing a mod purely on the basis of it being an art style you don't like
  • actively discouraging people from creating mods
  • Arguing that another poster's opinion is disqualified due to hysteria, ignorance, brainwashing or in general just not being "rational" enough
  • Other things not listed here - we put our trust in you as a HLP forum member that you're socially mature enough to get the gist of it

And I'd leave it at that.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 11:41:01 am by -Joshua- »

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.

  • Other things not listed here - we put our trust in you as a HLP forum member that you're socially mature enough to get the gist of it
Oh sweet summer child...

We can't have such vague rules. We need tight, specific rules as much for the staff as the members.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
That's a pretty good starting point Joshua =)

There are slight differences to rules of engagement around contentious discussions, namely the issue of personal attacks.  Pretty easy to enforce personal attacks outside of those discussions as it's a lot clearer what is and isn't.  Quite a few more shades of grey in current events, as we recently witnessed (and given that you had a hand in explaining some of that nuanced distinction recently, it's pretty clear there's room for it).

Specifically, your fourth point leaves a lot of room for subjective interpretation by moderators.  In the interest of consistency and transparency, I'd prefer to take more of the discretion of the moderation staff out of the equation.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
In the interest of consistency and transparency, I'd prefer to take more of the discretion of the moderation staff out of the equation.
Transparency, consistency and accountability. The more, the better.

I wonder if there's any way we could consign the whole "benevolent dictators" thing to the dustbin of history in a more meaningful way than just not saying it anymore.

 
Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
That's a pretty good starting point Joshua =)

There are slight differences to rules of engagement around contentious discussions, namely the issue of personal attacks.  Pretty easy to enforce personal attacks outside of those discussions as it's a lot clearer what is and isn't.  Quite a few more shades of grey in current events, as we recently witnessed (and given that you had a hand in explaining some of that nuanced distinction recently, it's pretty clear there's room for it).

Specifically, your fourth point leaves a lot of room for subjective interpretation by moderators.  In the interest of consistency and transparency, I'd prefer to take more of the discretion of the moderation staff out of the equation.

The point of the final point is to leave moderator discretion as a factor for them to explain as they see fit. This isn't The Law. Moderation is a people's job, and the current situation is in part the result of two people in particular trying to use the letter of the law against the spirit of the law. By emphasizing that the list is non-exhaustive, you avoid this. And this doesn't have to be set in stone either: The lovelyness of a bullet point list is that you can just add things you like or don't like that keep propping u0p (in fact, I did just that just now).

And I generally do have enough faith in the moderation staff to put trust in their discretion. You and Kara made some decent points about how the current situation was actually going quite well aside from, well, Goober. In general, mods have been excellent at explaining their reasoning for intervention.

There's obviously a question about making a rule list for staff conduct, but I'd think that's mostly just down to following a certain procedure. Am not going to tell you how to do your jobs. If you can explain your reasoning to eachother as well as you've done that to us, you ought to be fine.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
Oh you will be fine, -Joshua-. I'm sure you will enjoy a lot of favouritism and protection.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
My guess is that fourth point is not a precise guideline, but a subjective nudge to everyone new to what kind of thing we should be striving for. Mods should be gunning for what commentators are doing wrong, not what they are doing right, anyways.

Oh you will be fine, -Joshua-. I'm sure you will enjoy a lot of favouritism and protection.

Lorric, stop that. I don't remember Joshua ever benefitting from any perceived "favouritism" or "protection" or any other things. Let's keep our paranoias in check, ok?

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
My guess is that fourth point is not a precise guideline, but a subjective nudge to everyone new to what kind of thing we should be striving for. Mods should be gunning for what commentators are doing wrong, not what they are doing right, anyways.

Oh you will be fine, -Joshua-. I'm sure you will enjoy a lot of favouritism and protection.

Lorric, stop that. I don't remember Joshua ever benefitting from any perceived "favouritism" or "protection" or any other things. Let's keep our paranoias in check, ok?
It isn't paranoia, but might be better suited to the other thread about HLP going forward.

It's funny it's you. Don't you remember when I got permabanned from gen disc (it eventually got overturned) and you were concerned about it? I was talking to -Joshua- at the time.

 
Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
I think the main difference between you and me here lorric is that if a moderator tells me to shut up, I listen.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
I think the main difference between you and me here lorric is that if a moderator tells me to shut up, I listen.
I do too. It doesn't go like that. I got bans with no warnings.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
Enough bickering you two, or I'll find you chores to do /dadmode
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
Enough bickering you two, or I'll find you chores to do /dadmode
Okaaaay. :)

I don't have anything against you, -Joshua-.

 
Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
I know, but you do have a chip on your shoulder.

  

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
So in order to solve the problem of moderating PolDisc (which is the root issue that caused everything to go nucking futs) your idea is to nuke all of PolDisc from orbit? Seems like you're shooting pretty wide of the actual problem.
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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
So in order to solve the problem of moderating PolDisc (which is the root issue that caused everything to go nucking futs) your idea is to nuke all of PolDisc from orbit? Seems like you're shooting pretty wide of the actual problem.

I've since walked back from that a bit! I wouldn't even argue that the moderation of poldisc was the problem, just a minor subset of admins operating on a very different ruleset then everybody else.

In general though, I feel like if you can't moderate a thing, be it a comment section or a forum for political discussion, you shouldn't be having it at all. You'd have to take a strong look at how much mental energy you're expending towards something and whether or not it's worth it.

However, in my discussion with Ryan I have concluded that he is in fact a headstrong fool that will bring himself to ruin for the sake of his political discussion safe space fantasy perfectly willing to expend that mental energy for a cause that may help the site, so I won't question him on that.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
...just wondering why you crossed out the accurate descriptor portion of that...
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 
Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
...just wondering why you crossed out the accurate descriptor portion of that...

If there's anything that Greek mythology has taught me, it is that one should not oppose the Fates. If you want to push a boulder up the mountain for all eternity, feel free! :P

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
It is a shame MP-Ryan was not able to be a moderator a lot of years ago. There is no one on HLP I hold in higher regard.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
kill it.

basically i agree with everything nyct said on the matter.

if we lose members over it so be it. poldisc drives away as many members as it retains, it seems, and if losing it drives away the members that were only here for poldisc in the first place and nothing else, it is of my opinion that nothing of value would be lost in the first place; as compared to poldisc existing causing drama driving away people that are actually here for more than political ****flinging
(´・ω・`)
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Let's just burn poldisc to the ground.
See, but PolDisc has existed for a long time without causing drama outside of itself. Ya'll are taking one instance that was long-brewing due to things outside of PolDisc anyway and using that instance to take a swing at the issue with all the nuance of a tire iron. Most of you weren't involved and don't visit the board in the first pace... so go in to your profile and do the thing that makes PolDisc disappear.
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